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DeMeirleir's H2s (Hydrogen Sulfide) Diagnostic Test for CFS Announced

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Cort, Mar 19, 2011.

  1. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    DeMeirleir's H2s Diagnostic Test - this must be a different test, I suppose, than the one he did earlier. It is intriguing that its centered in the gut - which is getting more and more interest.

    He has a paper on it coming out soon.

     
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  2. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    Very interesting news, thanks.

    Let's see how this test will prove itself. If he's right that would be a big step forward.
     
  3. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    I think its encouraging that a year or so after the test first came out that he's still hanging with this. That suggests to me that it appears to work to him.
     
  4. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    But if the test would really work, then after a year i would expect doctors all over the world to do it and ME/CFS to be diagnosed using this test and no longer through the diagnostic criteria we know.
     
  5. SpecialK82

    SpecialK82 Ohio, USA

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    I guess I don't understand the logic exactly - lactose intolerance and stress can both cause overproduction of bacteria, and when the bacteria comes in contact with heavy metals, H2S is produced. So wouldn't this test also pick up people that were lactose intolerant or stressed?

    Downstream the H2S leads to retention of mercury, but heavy metals must already exist for the process to work.
     
  6. m1she11e

    m1she11e Senior Member

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    Im a little concerned that stress and lactose intolerance can also cause this. I hope it doesnt put the emphasis back on stress!!

    Do we look bad with so much media attention right now, which is great but it is going in completely different directions. XMRV? Toxic gas? STRESS??
     
  7. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    eric_s, it took one to two decades for Helicobacter pylori to be accepted by most doctors as causing stomach ulcers. Prior to such acceptance, doctors neither did tests nor prescribed the correct antibiotics. A diagnostic test, once proven, will have to be replicated, approved, used by some, reported as successful, used in many countries, approved as a test in many countries, then be written up in medical review articles. We can make this happen faster through advocacy, but it will still take years.

    In the meantime, while I hope KDM is right, it still have to be proved, and his paper is still not published. I am also glad this is completely separate from XMRV as this means that naysayers have two entirely separate things to argue against.

    Bye
    Alex
     
  8. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Be interesting to know his "underlying causes" in more detail. A friend is being treated as an MLV positive (amongst other treatments). And I gather all require antibiotic intervention (amongst other treatments). Good test though from one very positive here.
     
  9. consuegra

    consuegra Senior Member

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    H2S test

    Dr. de Meirleir first announced this test in May 2009. Shortly thereafter it became available to the public. It is used by various doctors but has not taken ahold in the states as far as I can see. I know a few people here who use this test to try to track improvements in H2S levels. A small amount of urine is put into a vial. Depending on the situation, the color changes over three minutes and then is measured by a color scale. I think de Meirleir uses this before and after treatment. In the past two years Dr. de Meirleir has gotten ten of 22 bedbound Norwegian ME patients out of bed. I asked him how he did this. His answer: antibiotics.

    It is worth noting that the hypothesis of H2S involvement in ME/CFS was first proposed by Marian Dix Lemle and her thesis can be found online. Incidentally, Marian Lemle still believes in this hypothesis.

    Chris

    http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot.com
     
  10. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Chris - his answer - antibiotics - what did he find is well worth waiting for. And shows everybody else is not looking hard enough I guess. A positive on the KDM test brought zeros from the NHS (UK) retests. Yet neon urine and loose dark stools must surely indicate something and KDM finds viruses requiring treatment with antibiotics - his "answer". So what is missing in UK tests. Hoping he can guide.
     
  11. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

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    Sorry Cort, but this is an old 2009 announcement apparently being sent around again by some ME/CFS organizations. Here is a FB discussion on that, for those on FB:

    http://www.facebook.com/notes/natio...sity-announces-test-for-mecfs/198632696826577

    But I think this is an example of promising research that seems to have been put on hold due to the XMRV finding, and probably should be re-evaluated.

    Also, their statement that H2S comes from interaction of bacteria with metals seems a bit odd to me. H2S is a common by-product of the breakdown or organic materials by bacteria, found in swamps and around sewage treatment plants. Interaction with metals is possible, but secondary. Here, from Wikipedia:

    It appears that H2S can be created with or without metals around.

    The biological function of H2S is pretty interesting, in tiny quantities it is a 'gasotransmitter' used in the nervous system, along with NO and CO. More from Wiki 'gasotransmitter':

    I think this is a promising area of research for CFS and hope some other labs will pick up the trail and expand on deMeirlier's work soon. Particularly because excess H2S can block NO (nitrous oxide) in the nerves. Might explain a lot about CFS.
     
  12. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    I can't access the Facebook link.

    Too bad this is old news. Still, the test might be good, but i don't think it's good to send that news around without mentioning it's old. This is confusing and not serious, in my view.

    Not you Cort, maybe for you it was not possible to recognize the age of it.

    Let's wait for the paper.
     
  13. mhj

    mhj

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    Kenny De Meirleir and Abberant Prion disease??

    This my be helpfull:

    1: ABSTRACT OF UPCOMING JOURNAL ARTICLE Preliminary Draft
    The De Meirleir research team will also publish a journal article on their work. The following draft was disseminated via the CO-CURE listserv May 28 by ME research reporter Jan van Roijen (j.van.roijen@CHELLO.NL).

    Research on Extremely Disabled M.E. Patients Reveals the True Nature of the Disorder
    By Kenny De Meirleir(1), Chris Roelant(2), Marc Fremont(2), Kristin Metzger(2), Henry Butt(3)

    (1) Vrije Universiteit Brussel & HIMMUNITAS foundation, Brussels, Belgium
    (2) Protea Biopharma, Brussels, Belgium
    (3) Bioscreen & Bio 21, University of Melbourne, Melbourne, Australia

    In this study we compared totally bedridden patients (Karnofski score 20-30) with less ill ME patients (Karnofski score 60-70), family controls, contact controls and non-contact controls.

    Link: http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=14579

    2: METHODS FOR THE DETECTION AND TREATMENT OF ABERRANT PRION DISEASE

    Rec: 26 mars 2010 og publ 30 september 2010.

    Link: http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Methods-detection-treatment-aberrant-prion/WO2010109009.html

    ????

    Note: The H2S test showing black even with healty people with no GI problems at ALL.

    sooo???

    ;)
     
  14. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

    It was sent to my email address from the NATIONAL ME/FM ACTION NETWORK as if it was news...
     
  15. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Whatever - KDM and findings all part of the "big" picture and very much part of ME. Lets hear his paper. And tying with Chia - enterovirals.
     
  16. insearchof

    insearchof Senior Member

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    Note: The H2S test showing black even with healty people with no GI problems at ALL.

    Hmmm, could be a problem. Where was this mentioned?
     
  17. insearchof

    insearchof Senior Member

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    Enid,

    I would be interested to know what Dr Chia's thoughts are about XMRV - Does anyone know?
     
  18. redo

    redo Senior Member

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    I don't see that as a problem. Many (if not most?) CFS patients don't have GI problems, so if the leaky gut (which the H2S may measure, correct me if I am wrong) is at the core of CFS, then the problem would really be if healthy people also tested black ;)
     
  19. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    KDM: Antibiotics, then probiotics...for H2S

    It's my understanding that antibiotics work only for bacterial infections, and possibly some others like parasite infections, but have no effect on viruses.

    Also, I believe that a core piece of information is missing: KDM uses antibiotics first, then uses very high dose probiotics to restore the 'good' bacteria.

    ???
     
  20. Emma

    Emma

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    I too recognized this from 2009. I am slightly doubtful about the test (having done it), since it's been around for two years, but, like someone said, no other ME/CFS doctor seems to have deemed it useful. Consuegra, I don't expect conventional doctors to pick up new stuff quickly, but if this was really relevant, then I believe that a number of visionary ME/CFS physicians would have taken to it.

    I should also mention that here in Europe there is questioning of a number of De Meirleir's tests. Many of the results can't be repeated using other labs, not just conventional labs (which may not look hard enough), but also other frontline American labs (used by American ME/CFS doctors). De Meirleirs (Red Labs) test which they say is measuring NK cell function is criticized by ME/CFS friendly expert NK cell researchers.
     

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