DeFreitas 1991 Retrovirus/CFS Study

[gu3vara]

That's going a bit off topic but still I'd like to hear from Gerwyn or anyone knowledgeable on that.

 

[Bob]

Yes, I think you are right gu3vara, about both things...
I think it means that every single cell in the body would contain HHV-6 integration (I'm not an expert about this!)
I think people with HHV-6 integration have specific symptoms that other people with a normal HHV-6 infection don't get... but I can't remember the details of this.
There's no evidence of XMRV behaving like an endogenous virus, as far as I am aware.

Just for clarification, does that mean that every single cell of the baby will be infected by the herpes virus in this case? If so, sounds like a dead sentence if it's the case, all new cells would be infected as well (???)

I certainly miss some basic concepts here, that's probably not that simple. My understanding is that if XMRV ca be vertically transmitted than it would literally behave as an endogenous virus and each cells would be infected.

 

[Bob]

What beliefs are you referring to Tina?

I can't speak for Tina, but I think she means that we are only aware of there being 3 exogenous human retroviruses... and she is suggesting that there could be many undiscovered, hidden, human retroviruses.

 

[Bob]

I just came across this one recently, interesting as they found HIV integrated in kids' DNA although they were all seronegative - no antibodies to HIV, conclusion that the infection was 'hidden', not active, HIV not replicating...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1524729/?tool=pubmed

Thanks natasa, very interesting... I don't understand what it all means though, in terms of the bigger picture, for the human population and HIV transmission and resistance etc.

 

[starryeyes]

Thanks Bob, that makes sense.

Amazing about those kids inheriting HIV that doesn't make them sick Natasa.

 

[Overstressed]

An endogenous virus has managed to get completely coded into our DNA, during the course of evolution... this has happened over the course of human evolutionary history...
My understanding is that there are many human endogenous retro-viruses and they are not usually thought to cause any disease, although there is research into endogenous retroviruses to see if there might be retrovirus sequences, or particles, which might be responsible for some diseases.

Hi Bob,

a year ago, I'd read a scientific magazine, reporting that the human genome(DNA) consists of 8% endogenous retrovirus particles. All in all, we're pretty much itself a retrovirus...

OS.

 

[Bob]

Hi Bob,

a year ago, I'd read a scientific magazine, reporting that the human genome(DNA) consists of 8% endogenous retrovirus particles. All in all, we're pretty much itself a retrovirus...

OS.

eeek...
so basically, we're 8% walking retroviruses!!!
that might explain a thing or two about some of the people i know!

 

[starryeyes]

lol Bob.

Here's that message from Dr. Bell regarding CAV:

By the way, people are already asking me if this is related to the retroviral sequences we published in 1991. Please don't ask me, history will sort this stuff out; the focus and attention now needs to be upon the current work, mechanics of symptom generation, epidemiology, and treatment implications. The focus needs to be upon the Whittemore-Peterson Institute, and other scientists who will become involved in replicating the material and moving on from there.

http://www.davidsbell.com/LynNewsV6N2.htm

This sounds similar to what Justin was saying. The WPI is focusing on XMRV right now and that's as it should be. I'm cool with that but I do hope CAV is revisited in the future and in fact it may be a necessary piece of the puzzle, maybe in some of us, maybe in all of us.

 

[cfs since 1998]

Thanks for putting Dr. Bell's comment into context, starryeyes. It was implied earlier in the thread that he thought we shouldn't talk about it. But what he is really seems to be saying is, "Don't ask me because I don't know." I think that remark was over-analyzed. I agree with what you said--let's concentrate on XMRV but think about revisiting CAV in the future. That would be something if we had two retroviruses in us

 

[Bob]

Here's that message from Dr. Bell regarding CAV...

Thanks for that starryeyes... it makes perfect sense that the WPI focuses on XMRV right now... they've only got very limited resources.

 

[justinreilly]

NIH's Straus: Naps, emotions and lack of exercise are the culprits, not a retrovirus

Osler's Web concludes on p.684 with a talk given by Stephen Straus at the American College of Rheumatology in 1994:

He cited, in addition, thirty year old medical papers that pinned recovery speed among mono and influenza victims to "the emotional state of the patient." "If we had been aware of these studies," he said, "some of us might not have tried to reinvent the wheel" by attempting to assign the disease a virological cause...

[Retroviral causation] "doesn't make any sense because ...retroviral infection... includes progressive hematologic, immunologic and neurologic deficits in one mix or another, and those aren't really prominent features of chronic fatigue syndrome."...

[Re: DeFreitas' work] "there's really no good scientific merit to it." He further posited, "There is no current evidence for chronic infection in CFS. Therefore, broad screening of CFS patients for infections is completely unwarranted. Your patients may demand exotic screenings," he added, "but it's only confusing."...

A significant portion of the symptomology of the disease, he commented, was a result of "poor sleep hygiene" and failure to exercise: "Patients exacerbate things because they take multiple naps during the day and break up their rest periods and sleep periods. They stay in bed a lot...

The scientist was roundly applauded, with at least one audience member shouting, "hear, hear!"

[emphasis added]

 

[knackers323]

Sorry if this has already been covered but, do we know if XMRV is different to the Defreitas virus? If so are people able to be tested for that retrovirus and the others that are known to exist in humans? maybe cfs is due to a retrovirus but not always the same one?

 

[Levi]

superinfecting helper virus

Knackers,

Since the DeFreitas and and XMRV virons are significantly different in size, they are probably different retroviruses. The DeFrietas microbe may have been HERV-K http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/reprint/9/1/72.pdf (see p.84 and reference 40).[/QUOTE]

Sorry if this has already been covered but, do we know if XMRV is different to the Defreitas virus? If so are people able to be tested for that retrovirus and the others that are known to exist in humans? maybe cfs is due to a retrovirus but not always the same one?

 

[xrayspex]

fantastic thread, don't know if saw it back in the day but glad to see it now, what a wealth of info

too tired to say a lot but coldtaste is funny as hell
and
I am concerned that De Grice said in that LA xmrv article last year the stuff he did that coldtaste (name right? too lazy to check back) points out that bogus aspect of his words but since he is head of NCI and they are part of NIH that is involved in the xmrv research.....it makes me wonder what sort of influence he wants to have over the Alter paper?

Also what Hyde said was brilliant about cdc coverup is like "state terrorism' but i recall him being down on xmrv, remember why?

 

[lancelot]

After the Lo/Alter paper, it is more than obvious now that Elaine's CFS retrovirus she named CAV is one of the MLV variants. I have no doubt that this is the case rather than it being a 2nd novel retrovirus in CFS/ME unrelated to XMRV/MLV.

Elaine must have a big smile every time she goes to sleep at nights. God bless and sweet dreams......