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Deep tissue massage

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Lucinda, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. Lucinda

    Lucinda Senior Member

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    Has anyone else tried deep tissue massage?

    It was my birthday a few days ago, and I decided it would be nice to go to a day spa and have a nice relaxing full body massage.

    However, obviously my brain wasn't functioning as I booked a deep tissue massage by mistake!

    Needless to say it was not nice and relaxing. It was overwhelming (waaaay too much for my sensitive body), exhausting and painful. I felt so sore afterwards, and had to go straight to bed and stayed there for ages.

    However, after 24 hours I started to feel better. And then, after a bit longer, I started to actually feel (relatively) good!

    The massage therapist said that it works by draining toxins. Do you think deep tissue massage might therefore be a good therapy for CFS/ME? Has anyone else tried it?
  2. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    I'm glad you feel good now. I get massages and TMJ massages. I am sensitive so I don't get deep tissue. Massage in general is amazing!
  3. kat0465

    kat0465 Senior Member

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    i have done a few deep tissue massages, the therapist i go to knows a lot about fibro, so she takes it a bit easy on me. but the first day i feel like total crapola!!!

    she always makes me drink lots of water and take a hot bath in epsom salts. it gets the toxins out that she releases. by the next day im feeling much better.

    i wish i could do them on a regular basis, but just cant afford it at this time.she said i should do it regularly, cause it has a cumlative effect.

    Kat
  4. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    The massage, especially the deep kind, clears out the junk in the lymph system, the nooks and crannies, the back of the closet, etc. The result is feeling flu-ish for a day or two, but then better. I used to have this reaction when I took a yoga class occasionally, back when I could. I can't afford massages as a rule, but have rollers of different diameters which I can use by lying on them in various positions and their pressure does the same thing. This bodywork can also temporarily relieve and open up areas of compression for blood flow and nerve conduction--also good. Doing this as often as one can at home, or wherever, keeps a healthy flow going and relieves pain too!
  5. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    Yes - The deep tissue massage did me in until the therapist got the full gist of what CFS and Fibro was. She actually made a couple of observations on my first visit (I was going to be macho and not say anything about the CFS/Fibro) and she actually picked up on sensitivity during the massage. Her first observstion was that my muscle fibers(?) were very tacky, in that they didn't separate as they usually should. The second thing was hard knots vey sporadically located, mostly in the neck and hamstrings. Needless to say that I offered up plenty of information after that visit, but was very good from there on out.

    The best results were obtained by getting a (less than) deep tissue massage on Tuesday and then a lymphatic drainage massage on Saturday. The lymphatic massage kind of falls in line with Perrin Technigue. My body just could not handle the toxins (or byproducts) from a massage as I was sore for 4 or 5 days afterwards
  6. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Sing beat me to it.
    I think your reaction may have somethign to do with the lymph system.
    I heard a talk at one of the DAN conferences where a practitioner said the autistic kids had lymph like butter and it was the missing piece.
    (she was selling lymph drainage services)
    But still, I think she has a point.... Cheney and others have recommended rebounding for lymph.
    Then there's the Perrin technique.
    I think I get toxins backed up in my head and neck. I get lymph drainage massage.. vodder style.
    First time I got nauseous during the session. I take water and charcoal caps with me to mop up the toxins.
  7. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    I think its generally agreed that if you can tolerate it then massage, whatever it is doing can be beneficial. If you felt crappy for a day or two after then i think that is a sign that your body can cope with it and is dealing with the toxins. I agree that a warm bath and lots of water to drink and replacing minerals after is a good idea. I had a massage earlier in the year and was very ill for a month afterwards, so i dont feel ready for it yet, but have just started having very gentle mctimony (chiro) on my neck, back and pelvis and only elt ill or 1 day after -so an improvement i think!
    Sounds like it was good for you.
  8. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    I have tried it Lucinda but I always feel worse after and the actual massage is too painful for me.

    It may be that for some people the "detox pathways" or whatever mechanism is stirred up by the massages does work for people and for some it doesn't. I suspect that I am a "doesn't" as I never feel better after a massage (even with baths, rests, water, supplements etc)

    In my case I've noticed that any treatment on the body works in the same way as exercise intolerance and makes me much worse for at least a week.

    Do you get exercise symptoms and does it work in the same way as per the massage did?

    Just an idea - we are all different.

    Glad that it went well for you though!

    XMRV+
  9. Lucinda

    Lucinda Senior Member

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    My response to exercise varies.

    Sometimes, when I exercise, I become very 'wired'. I get anxious, restless, very on edge and jittery. Then, after about a day (though again the time period varies) I crash and become very fatigued and generally more ill. I would say this is my most common reaction.

    Then other times, I just feel more and more fatigued and ill when I exercise, until my body forces me to stop. I'll then feel bad for a while after.

    And then finally, if I am doing relatively well with my health, and do a small amount of very light exercise (like a few mins slow walking) I will feel fatigued after but not too bad at all, and as long as I'm careful and don't do too much, I don't feel worse the next day, and sometimes can even feel slightly better. It's not very often I achieve this though!

    In any case, my response to the massage is making me wonder if The Perrin Technique might be a good option for me?
  10. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    That is interesting, XMRV+ I guess we all need to be close observers of our own bodies and their reactions.

    For me, it is different--the effects of massage and effects of exercise. There is an overlap of flu-ish-ness and some fatigue, but the difference for me comes from the engagement of the adrenal system etc. in exercise, which isn't involved in the passive movements and manipulations of massage. I don't seem to have much of a flight or flight system, and trying to engage it results in a deficit state for some days. I compare it to trying to run a car without oil. I don't have the 'juice', the 'kick', to engage in exertions normally, but pay for them afterwards in a deficit state.

    However, with the massage/self massage work, the 'bad' feeling afterwards is more of a good thing as it means that the toxins have moved from the lymph system to the blood where they will be cleared. And that now the lymph system is freed up again for new work and to do its job.
  11. Tom

    Tom windows exterminator

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    A few days late " Happy Birthday Lucinda ".

    You wrote " In any case, my response to the massage is making me wonder if The Perrin Technique might be a good option for me?"

    I would say yes -but then I've been on it for a while.

    Part of the technique is the self treatment daily , this can be too much for some people as the detox effects can be a bit much.
    For myself , I would be feeling quite rough for 3 to 4 days in the initial stages of treatment , but feeling better for around 2 days before my next session. Weekly sessions .
    I didn't do the self treatment massage till the roughness only lasted one day .

    For some people whose bodies are extremely toxic the effects can make them very bad with no "feeling better" between sessions . So for those people it may be better to try detoxing the liver first with milk thistle ? as it is the liver that gets the extra detoxing to do when getting treatment.
    Enhansa may also help with detox before treatment also an antiinflammatory , antifungal and antiviral.

    I pay 35 per treatment every 4 weeks now , but to me it has been well worth while.

    Tom
  12. Lucinda

    Lucinda Senior Member

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    Well I only felt more ill for about 24 hrs after the deep tissue massage, so am guessing that the detox effects aren't as bad with me as they are for some sufferers.

    In any case, I have bought the Perrin book and am going to research it more. It def takes my interest, and I know there is a practictioner very close to where I live.

    You recommend milk thistle for detoxing then? Will look into that. And never heard of enhansa, will research that too.

    And thanks for the happy birthday :)
  13. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    Hello Lucinda - I was just checking in to see if you had finished researching the "Perrin Technique" book and if so, what you thought about it?
  14. Dainty

    Dainty Senior Member

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    My experience with massage in general...

    I have been through I think 5 massage therapists, and my current one is doing me more good than the first 4 put together. So a note to anyone reading this, massages vary not only by type but really by person. My current therapist says that even among her own peers, trained by the exact same people and instructed in the exact same techniques, she actually only enjoyed massages from about half of them. And that's a healthy person! So keep in mind that sometimes it's jsut aobut finding the right therapist, and you have to shop around a little...unfortunately most of us can't do much "shopping", I just was blessed to find this.

    The first time she did a massage on me, near the end I got major fibro pain in one thigh that began to spread and I jsut had her end it....within half an hour fibro pain was so bad I couldn't wear clothes or lay down....but I still felt good otherwise, with my muscles relaxed. The next day wasn't great but okay, and the next day I woke up with severe PEM, worse than I've had in a long time. I was really not expecting that, since it's never happened with other massages. It hasn't happened since.

    I personally have found I can't tolerate full body massages yet; my body starts to say "stop" about halfway through and if I go beyond that I get a major fibro flare. However if I stay within the envelope then I do not get a fibro flare. It's frustrating the end the massage when you're "uneven" but it's better than dealing with the pain.

    Now for the exciting part (to me). An unexpected benefit to this different kind of massage is that I'm finding my body is relaxing into good posture. For years I've worked on my posture when I could, and there was jsut no way...it causes me so much pain, and makes the muscles more tense, and I physically jsut can't hold it. But three days after the first massage I was walking a few steps and I felt my back straighten...and it felt good for it to straighten. I was amazed, it was an intense feeling of relief in those muscles, like they are finally where they're supposed to be doign what they're supposed to do. Walked around upright, reveling in the feeling.

    That lasted all of two minutes. Then intense fibro pain hit me like a mac truck and lasted a full two days. Very intense pain. THen it went away. The progress in posture remained.

    After the next massage, the same thing happened a few days later with a different muscle group. THe sense of relief is beyond description, and my body want to do it automatically...I'm not forcing anything. My muslces really do relax into the posture. Again, it lasts for only a couple minutes max before the intense pain for two days. And after two days I discovere dit again with another msucle group. Again the pain. Again, the progress holds when the pain is gone.

    So I'm really excited about how the massage actually seems to be having a more permanent effect. It isn't jsut the massage itself, it's more liek the massage gives me the key to unlocking my muscles, and then throughout the week I can turn the key and let my muscles release their toxins. It's been an extremely painful road so far, and i'm looking into better pain management because it really is borderline unbearable.....but it's progress! Progress that I can feel and see, and even my massage therapist can feel the difference.

    I've been getting massages for about a year total, and in the past they've been pretty painful and only helped temporarily. Other massage therapists seemed to try to force my muscles to relax, while this one tends to do more "convincing" and it causes almost zero pain. And it's making a more long-term difference.

    I don't always have the energy for good posture, and whe I'm in a lot of pain there's just no way. But the difference is that when I'm not curled over in pain, I have the ability to walk upright in such a way that my back muscles and soon to be my chest muscles and neck muscles are relaxed and happy. THat's got to help something.

    And maybe someday I can tolerate full body massages. Lately my legs have been quite jealous of the treatment my back gets. lol
  15. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Years ago, I read that deep massage should be avoided by PWC in case there were viral particles in the muscles; I can't remember what the danger of this was (it must be 20 years ago when I read this). Are normally healthy people advised against deep massage when they have the flu? Would the same danger apply to PWC? People who are HIV+?

    Sorry to raise a vague fear! I don't have any medical knowledge at all so this kind of stuff ends up as the cartoon version in my head. Maybe the advice has changed in that time.
  16. Lucinda

    Lucinda Senior Member

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    Well it seemed to suit me Sasha, but then everyone with this illness seems to react to things differently, don't they? I must admit, if I'd have known the massage was so firm and painful I wouldn't have gone for it out of fear of it making me more ill in my fragile state. As it was though I think it did me a lot of good. I still find myself reluctant to try again though as it is such a strong treatment I do worry that it could have a bad effect.

    Good to hear you have benefitted so much though, Dainty. Even if you have had to suffer a lot of pain.

    August - Yes, my positive response to deep tissue massage did make me consider Perrin, since Perrin also works by draining toxins. I did some research online and read the book and have to say I've been quite impressed. In a recent survey the ME Association did, Perrin came up as the third highest rated treatment (with pacing and relaxation/meditation techniques rated the highest) after 13.9% said they had greatly improved, 37.4% improved, 37.4% experienced no change, 7% got slighly worse, and 4.3% got much worse. (You can see it here: http://www.meassociation.org.uk/?page_id=1345) Compared to other treatments this result is really good.

    And the book was very interesting. My personal opinion was that I don't think the theory behind Perrin is the whole story. However the theory is a fascinating one and I did relate very well to what was said in the book, so I think I'm going to give Perrin a try and see what happens. Luckily there is a practitioner near where I live, but I don't think there are loads of practitioners about so unfortunately it may be a hard treatment for everyone to get access too.
  17. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    I would say look into Myofascial Release, the Fascia is the issue with Fibro and I think ME/CFIDS/CFS. It is more expensive, but might prove more effective. This methodology is more gentle. FYI

    GG
  18. Phil

    Phil

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    Hi Lucinda
    I have a different take on this. Deep tissue massage might be releasing toxins etc but it also might be simply not what your muscles want. Maybe pressing, kneading etc in a forceful way is not the best way to get muscles to relax. Ones immediate pain response to some forceful techniques may be an indication that this is not good for your tissues. I know this is not a fun viewpoint, it's nice to think if I go get this deep forceful stuff done I'm really softening my muscles and opening up my body.
    A little pain and a lot of gain. Maybe you are? But maybe you are really forcing some muscles into suppression? I got these notions from Thomas Griner years ago. Here's a link: http://www.neurosoma.com/index.html.
    Incidentally is The Perrin Technique really very similar to deep tissue massage. Certainly it has a different goal in mind. Lymph drainage and detox has not been the primary goal of deep tissue massage. I find the Perrin Technique quite interesting and wish there were people trained in it in the US.
    Phil
  19. Marg

    Marg Senior Member

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    Yes, I have tried it. I have been with the same massage therapist since 97. He did not start deep but worked up to it. He said my legs were like two logs when he started. He has also has done myfascial release and that does hurt more than anything. The fascia is pulled away from the muscle.
    Always be sure to drink a ton of water after massage. One time I forgot to keep drinking and I woke up with a horrible headache and nausea. I have also found that colonic therapy is a good thing to do the next day if feeling very toxic. If you find the right therapist with a gavity flow machine it is actually very relaxing. I was so toxic in the early days that I was poisoning myself. The doctor told me to find a therapsit and I found one of the best only 60 miles away. Sadly, she passed away but had trained others so I will be trying one of her students that is also an RN and homeopath this week.
    These colonic therapists use implants..coffee to detox the liver, a blood purifier, something to kill yeast and parasite and lastly the minerals are replaced.
    Another good time is after taking anything that kills pathogens to get them out. They can make you feel very toxic as they die off. I did learn that if you do not get the yeast out after killing for example a more resistant strain will grow.
    I see that you are from the UK. I am sure there are some good therapists there. I remember reading that Princes Di was a huge fan of them.
    I was very lucky to find this woman, she was in the Internation Who's Who of Alternative Medicine. We became good freind and she taught me a lot. She never let on she had a heart problem and was doing way too much to help others.

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