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Decreased need for B12 when gallbladder is sluggish

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by kday, May 21, 2012.

  1. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    It's clear to me when using binders such as Activated Charcoal and Bentonite Clay, my need for B12 eventually decreases when taking a combination of binders. I'm not sure if these are really binding toxins well, or just impairing bile flow. It seems as if when my gallbladder becomes less sluggish and clears itself out, symptoms return with a feeling of toxicity. For me, the symptoms become quite severe both physically, neurologically, but megadoses of B12 + other vitamins helps a ton.

    I've been having pain and distension of the gallbladder lately. Again, when this sludge or whatever it is finally decides to dump, the toxicity feeling can hit hard. At this point, these toxins or whatever they are feel as if they recirculate causing a lot of symptoms until the gallbladder fills back up again becomes sluggish once again. I think if one didn't have a sluggish gallbladder, they would probably just feel more or less constantly ill and not be able to feel this cycle.

    While I benefit greatly from methylation (specifically Freddd's high dose protocol), I do not feel that this will solve the problem of what I think are recirculating neurotoxins.

    I got sick in 2008 while living in Lake Tahoe. I had a bacterial infection (not a virus!) originally diagnosed and treated as Lyme disease. I don't live in a moldy house, but I may have when living in Tahoe. I didn't know how sensitive I was to mold until staying in very bad and musty buildings on the East Coast. I do meet all the criteria for ME/CFS (including biomarkers) and have the typical associated syndromes as well.

    If others have these same type of neurotoxins, I do not think methylation/glutathione will ever address the issue. I'm not claiming I have a solution - but this is my opinion. I will be trying Cholestyramine soon.
    merylg likes this.
  2. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    I started on a very very basic version of the protocol a few months ago, aka methyl-B12 and metafolin. I felt lousy on it, and Rich advised me to stop taking them and try again another time. The two main problems at the time were a) non-functional gallbladder due to gallstones; b) gabapentin withdrawal. No idea if that tells you anything useful, but there it is. Now that I'm over both those things, I'm planning to wait a few more months before trying methylation, as I've not been too well this spring.

    No experience with sludge, though, I was just told that I had gallstones. On looking it up, it seems to be rather complicated stuff, tricky to diagnose and deal with. The site I'm looking at tells me vaguely that sludge may come and go, and that you can get similar symptoms to gallstones and a few other things, but doesn't go into detail. Out of curiosity, how do you know when the sludge has been dumped, does it show up on ultrasound or something? Is it something you can control through diet at all?
  3. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Kady,

    I had my gall bladder removed in 1995 after years of misery. I had the whole gall bladder packed tight with "sand" as the doc sexcribed it. He said that the bladder was quarter inch thick immobile scar tissue packed solid with small stones and would have made a good blackjack. I dodn't start mb12 until 2003.
  4. Michael

    Michael

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    Hi,
    How are you doing now?
    Have you tried using a charcoal poultice over the liver /gallbladder area for HOURS and/or overnight, for many days?
    I purchased mine here:
    http://www.buyactivatedcharcoal.com/
    I got this for internal and external use:
    http://www.buyactivatedcharcoal.com/tech_data/activated_charcoal_powder/usp_8325

    I am also reading, studying and using the info in this book:
    http://www.charcoalremedies.com/books

    best wishes!
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Kaday,

    The glutathione can be cause a powerful reaction called "detox" . That is casued by a severe induced folate deficiency regarless of how much methylfolatge you are taking and oit a;so ccancels out b12 so you get worse with maybe occasional relief.
  6. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    Edegem, Belgium
    Interesting!

    when I'm on Fredd's full protocol for 2,5 months, I get pain under the right rib cage for two weeks as if my liver or gallbladder is clogging up. Then I eat only soup for 2 weeks and it passes. It definitively does move "things".
  7. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    I am the original poster.

    I would like to say that B-12 caused what seemed to be sluggish liver and gallbladder symptoms for quite some time. After a couple years, and plenty of liver/gallbladder support, I no longer get these symptoms.

    However, I will say, I really think pushing a lot of B12 can cause liver disease depending on what toxins you are offloading. I had liver disease for some time, but it's healed. I do have many tiny supposedly benign liver cysts all over my liver now for some reason. But no evidence of disease.

    However, when things used to congest the liver/gallbladder, I actually felt better. When this happened, I also had trouble urinating, so I have a theory the feeling better part could have been blood volume related. My other theory (which I think may be more plausible) is that an influx of toxins cause inflammation of the bile ducts and temporarily stops enterohepatic recirculation of harmful neuro and/or endocrine toxins
    merylg likes this.
  8. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    What kinds of soup?
  9. merylg

    merylg Senior Member

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    Hi kday,
    I am currently experiencing this sluggish liver & gallbladder issue. I am also finding I am intolerant of any more B12.
    I also think there is a general circulation issue going on in my case (?vasculitis) PLUS an issue of inflammation within the bile ducts. I am also in a generally more hypersensitive state with regard to any toxic insult. I can also sense that maybe I am having Ammonia issues in brain caused by liver dysfunction. Yet my serum bilirubin is OK.

    My ALP, AST & GGT are rising...slowly...& my GP wants to investigate for sluggish gallbladder/biliary tract issues, but I am wary to have another nuclear med scan, as I have just had/am having some other ones :alien: for gastric & colonic motility. Maybe a MRCP would be more informative???
    (I already know I have fatty infiltration & cirrhotic appearance to liver. Gastro specialist has excluded a lot of issues & is monitoring)
    I have a feeling I may have some pre-disposing genetic structural & metabolic issues going on. A 2 hr GTT showed I have mild insulin resistance. I am thinking Marfan's, Loeys-Dietz, EDS etc etc & even genetic Mito disease or other??? Connective tissue disorders like Marfan's can predispose to fibrosis...that's another possibility. Did you try Cholestyramine? How did it go?
  10. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    I used to not be able to tolerate CSM. Now I can and took it for a couple months. I'm not sure how much improvement I had, but it may have helped the liver and inflammation now that I think about it.

    Liver problems are part of this illness. Whether you have elevated enzymes or not. I know many people that develop fatty liver with normal enzymes.

    I don't know exactly why liver disease doesn't necessarily correlate with enzymes. Is it lack of inflammation from a poor immune response? Slow degeneration? I really don't know the answers. I just know testing doesn't correlate with clinical picture and imaging very well.
    merylg likes this.
  11. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    Edegem, Belgium
    Vegetable mainly, no tomatoes however! Although I like a piece of meat because of proteins as buildings stones in general, I have to skip it or diminish it during these time. I just add some butter to the soup or on my crackers.
    Little Bluestem and merylg like this.
  12. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    Edegem, Belgium
    Interesting! I always wondered why my liver enzymes are ok and my neural doctor says my liver is not working well ...
    On the last echo there was a small nodule on the liver. It wasn't there 4 years ago; I did not even mention it to the family doctor.
  13. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    Bile salts like Cholacol are good for sluggish GB and since dgestion slows down during detox, its good to have on hand.
    Marlène likes this.

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