Professor & patients' paper on the solvable biological challenge of ME/CFS: reader-friendly version
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Debate: I'm pretty sure why those of us CFS /ME suffers are INTOLERANT to alchohol

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Tired of being sick, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. Tired of being sick

    Tired of being sick Senior Member

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    Three words:
    Low Blood Volume............................

    Ready go........
     
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  2. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    overwhelmed nervous system
     
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  3. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I also think b/c many of us have low blood pressure and alcohol is a vaso-dilator that probably lowers it more?
     
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  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Does anyone know why alcohol intolerance seems to be a common response to infection (or was this just me)?

    I was formerly struck by alcohol intolerance being such a distinct part of my illness, and saw it as something that might make a sensible thing to investigate for researchers rather than just amorphous 'fatigue', but having thought about it more since, isn't this a fairly common response to a number of different health problems? I really don't know much about this though, so would be interested to hear what others think.
     
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  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Alcohol stuffs the mitochondria two ways. It poisons it, and it triggers release of arachidonic acid which creates an oxidative stress storm. Indeed this is how alcohol kills, despite what is written in most text books, as treating arachidonic acid release can stop death by alcohol poisoning.

    However there is no doubt alcohol has multiple effects. In all likelihood there are overlapping layers of damage.

    PS. During infection there will be a drive to release increased arachidonic acid as part of the hormonal response. So alcohol intolerance might be amplified. This is mostly speculation on my part though.
     
  6. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    If this is the case I wonder if those of us with hypERvolemia might tolerate alcohol, or even benefit?
     
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  7. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I really don't know but there was another thread a few months ago (I think by deleder2k) in which several people said that they felt better after alcohol so I wonder if that group of people had hypervolemia or high blood pressure? I am the least scientific person here so take all my theories with a grain of salt.
     
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  8. daisybell

    daisybell Senior Member

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    I feel as though I cannot metabolise alcohol at all now... I have absolutely no desire to drink, and if I do have more than about one unit, I feel very unwell.
     
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  9. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Anyone with a science background should consider everything hypothetical till its nailed down twelve ways from Sunday. However, in order to find the answer you often have to consider all options. Speculation has its purpose.
     
  10. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    hi
    yes, I can tolerate alcohol no problem at the time of drinking....next day it will always make me more fatigued, I'll go from half human to a write off next day, but at the time of drinking I am great.
    I have normal blood volume, in middle of NHS range, I can get you the figure if needed.
    Blood pressure is high normal @ 130-140/80. Been like that last 20 years, pulse 55-60.
    I dont have POTS, heart rate doesnt budge much when standing etc, and I never have dizzy spells.
    However I am completely fatigued, no tolerance to exercise etc.
    My condition was PROGRESSIVE over 3 years,however was only diagnosed this year, but the first 2 years I just brushed it off as a bad day.
    Over last year, every day is bad day.
    So, I think this is a particular subset (normal BP, not viral onset, little or no muscle pain, alcohol tolerance).
    Also, my cortisol is raised over normal, whereas many in CFS are depleted.

    I have suffered from chronic angioedema (occassional face swelling) last 20 years, whether thats relevant I dont know.

    I have a feeling my condition is of bacterial origin, currently getting 8 heavy amalgrams removed (4 from 8 done now), will let you know if it has impact.Currently using RichV methylation protocol, plus a mix of chlorella, selenium, multi-V, ATP fuels and a few other.

    Bye.
     
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  11. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I have commented on this before. I get a delayed biphasic response to alcohol. I could tolerate alcohol at the festivity where I was drinking it. I typically stopped long before I should have had a hangover - except that one time when the bartender was making drinks his way, maybe triple the alcohol they should have had. That is another story. This is my personal experience, and may not apply to many other patients.

    My initial response is feeling great. Some hours later however, or sometimes the next day ...

    I get a hangover that is not a hangover. Its a worsening of symptoms across the board. This does not recover that day either, but lasts about three days. Then something else happens. I get a different response, and go very twired (tired but wired) for several weeks. So when I used to drink on New Years Eve (back when I allowed myself one night a year) I would just recover in time for February to start. That is some hangover.

    All of this is consistent with an initial over-use of arachidonic acid, the primary pro-inflammatory substrate for eicosanoid hormones. Then, having depleted my store of eicosanoid substrate to a very low level I went into eicosanoid deficiency mode. So my symptom base shifted. It was still not good. I do not know for sure this explanation is right, no tests were run, but its consistent with the view.

    It has always struck me as odd that more research has not occurred in ME to investigate the physiological anomalies that might prove useful in general medicine. Why do we react so badly to alcohol? Try asking why we get so few heart attacks despite a massive pro-inflammatory and oxidative stress metabolism, being unfit, and many of us being overweight? (Or underweight, but cardiologists probably are less interested in underweight patients.)

    Question. So my question to everyone is this: how are you feeling a few days and a few weeks after drinking alcohol, not at the time you are drinking it?
     
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  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn The Diabolic Logic

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    @alex3619 - I can't drink enough to feel the effects later. I immediately feel much worse after just a sip or two.
     
  13. rebar

    rebar Senior Member

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    I for one don't think is one process for every one, there are times I can drink in moderation, beer, and times when I take even a small amount it quickly goes to my head. Again for me there are cycles of toleration. It's not that I feel worse the next day but how quickly it goes to head in a very disturbing way and amount being only couple of sips.
     
  14. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Yes, I think we will have a range of responses.
     
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  15. Tired of being sick

    Tired of being sick Senior Member

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    One word...........

    Dehydration................
     
  16. snowathlete

    snowathlete Not an ol' sleazebag

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    I get a very strong and very quick response. I havent drunk for several years now. It isn't dehydration in my case. There is clearly something ME related going on. I'd be interested to know in which other illnesses this happens, because although not everyone with ME/CFS gets it, a sizeable majority do, and if we could identify other illnesses that have the same problem then maybe we might spot some similarities in the diseases that might help explain things. The problem is that otherwise there are too many things that could be it, narrowing things down might help.
     
  17. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    I was alcohol intolerant until I did a liver detox - it was great. My digestion improved enormously (I still have to take HCL with most protein meals) but my digestion is so much better. And, I can drink wine now like a normal person. When my liver was toxic, one glass of wine would make sick for an entire day, and 2 glasses would make me sick for 3 days. So I think there's a very good chance that at least some of the alcohol intolerance talked about here is due to an overloaded liver. My liver seemed to be primarily toxic from heavy exposure to chemical solvents at a job I had a long time ago.
     
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  18. CantThink

    CantThink Senior Member

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    @Mary

    What liver detox did you do?
     
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  19. Tired of being sick

    Tired of being sick Senior Member

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    To all of you all's responses..


     
  20. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    CantThink - I did a liver detox under the supervision of my chiropractor who did muscle testing. I suspected and muscle testing confirmed that I had chemical solvents in my liver from a job I had when I was 19. The chiro gave me two Standard Process products: Parotid PMG and Cholacol II. I took them for about a month. It was rather rough, I got very tired and sick feeling but I stuck it out and am so glad I did. I also started taking milk thistle afterwards (which I continue to take) and also HCL with meals, which helped both my liver and my gallbladder.

    In general, lemon juice is very cleansing for the liver and other organs. Dandelion tea is also very good. I've read that Spanish black radish can help too. There is a whole slew of products for detoxing, but the two SP ones above are what I used.

    As a side note, I've had very good results with muscle testing, particularly in regard to digestion issues. I posted about muscle testing recently and was told that it was a fantasy - ouch! Yeah, I just imagined my adrenal energy picking up after treatment with adrenal glandulars given to me by my chiropractor, and I just imagined my rejuvenated liver ... all I can say is if you haven't tried it, don't knock it. And it's cheap. And it helped me after countless doctors couldn't. So if that's a fantasy, well, it's a very nice one.

    Mary
     
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