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Day Seven on LDN

belize44

Senior Member
Messages
1,662
Well, I took .4 LDN yesterday evening. I fell asleep fairly quickly and slept deeply, but still had a break in sleep towards early morning. I also had a massive headache again with an exacerbation in irregular heart beats, and high pulse rate. I had to get up and drink more salt water before it calmed down somewhat. I also woke with a higher blood pressure. I am going to dose with .2 tonight.
 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
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5,288
Location
Canada
This site contains a list of potential side effects with possible reasons. It's aimed at people with MS but I expect most of it applies to anyone taking LDN.

Keep in mind that you may be reacting to a filler instead of the LDN itself.

A few extracts related to what you've noticed:
Rarely, other transient symptoms have included more severe pain and spasm, headache, diarrhea or vomiting. These additional symptoms would appear to be associated with the previous frequent use of strong analgesics, which effectively create an addiction and dependency, thus increasing the body's sensitivity to pain. (Similar symptoms can also occur in people unknowingly allergic/sensitive/intolerant to gluten and/or dairy and who take those foodstuffs concurrently with LDN.)

Some people have reported a modest increase in blood pressure associated with taking LDN, while others have reported a decrease.

The Mayo Clinic has extensive information on the side effects of much larger doses of Naltrexone (25 mg and up), the kind used to treat alcoholism and drug addiction. Some of these side effects (like dizziness, thirst, itching, rapid heartbeat, and urinary problems) may also apply in rare instances to LDN.

A note about dose, time, avoiding taking with food:
The optimal dose of LDN for the average adult is deemed to be 4.5 mg taken between 9 pm and 3 am. To control for the difference between Daylight Savings and Standard Time, some people take it between 10 pm and 2 am. The optimal dose does not suit everyone, however, as will be discussed later in this site.

LDN should not be taken with food. The medication needs to be rapid release, and food prevents that, because it is delayed in the digestive process and consequently presented piecemeal to the body's opioid receptors. For the same reason, LDN should not be compounded with the filler calcium carbonate, as it tends to cake and prevent rapid release.
 

Chriswolf

Senior Member
Messages
130
I'm actually down to 0.2 myself and I actually started to experience the characteristic sleep disturbance effects of LDN.

Probably because it was metabolized more quickly and I started to experience the endorphin recovery sooner.

That being said, I still woke up rather easily and feeling reasonably well rested as opposed to the absolute death I've been feeling like the last few days since my side effects changed.

I started experiencing seriously bad anhedonia, I felt like a piece of plywood, I couldn't enjoy anything, there was very little dimension to my personality.

Since titrating down I've noticed an immediate difference, I think that for some reason I'm very sensitive to medications, but even at dosages as high as 0.50 I seem to still be experiencing the opioid blocking effects long after I should be.

The 0.20 dose seems to suit me a lot better at present.

I woke up and had to immediately get some water to drink, but at least I felt energetic enough to get up and do that, my mood wasn't bad either, I woke up today feeling rather good from a psychological standpoint which makes dealing with side effects all the more easy.

There is such a thing as dosing all the way down to 0.1mg, so don't be afraid to go down that far just to try it out.
 

belize44

Senior Member
Messages
1,662
Even on .2, I am waking with high blood pressure and feeling irritable. I don't know if I should increase or decrease any further? I was going to try and stick with the .2 until Sunday, then either increase or decrease. The high blood pressure usually goes down after my morning dose of salt water, but sometimes it spikes again in the evening. I am not sure if the LDN is causing it, or something else.
 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
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5,288
Location
Canada
I don't know if I should increase or decrease any further?

The general advice I've read is to wait for symptoms to abate before increasing. If they last for more than a week at the current dose then decreasing would probably be a good idea.

Do you know what fillers are added to the capsules you're taking?
 

belize44

Senior Member
Messages
1,662
The general advice I've read is to wait for symptoms to abate before increasing. If they last for more than a week at the current dose then decreasing would probably be a good idea.

Do you know what fillers are added to the capsules you're taking?
The pharmacist said something about a lactose based filler.
 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
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5,288
Location
Canada
Lactose should be ok if you aren't sensitive to it. Some pharmacies will crush Naltrexone tablets and then add additional fillers to make capsules. In that case you would be getting other fillers as well. If your pharmacy uses Naltrexone powder plus a lactose based filler then there shouldn't be anything else to cause a reaction (assuming the capsules are plain gelatin or veg caps).
 

belize44

Senior Member
Messages
1,662
Well, I have to admit I missed pain medicine for the first time today, because I had a biopsy done of my thyroid and now my neck and throat hurts. I hope to be feeling better tomorrow. I did take some Chinese herbs specifically for trauma to the body, and rubbed some medicated oil into my throat. Here's hoping!
 
Messages
8
Well, I have to admit I missed pain medicine for the first time today, because I had a biopsy done of my thyroid and now my neck and throat hurts. I hope to be feeling better tomorrow. I did take some Chinese herbs specifically for trauma to the body, and rubbed some medicated oil into my throat. Here's hoping!
hi - i think you and i started taking LDN around the same time - i am on day 12 - it's been a doozy - i started at 1.5 and my doc told me to try it first thing in the AM - it KNOCKED me out but i kept going - did that for 5 days until i couldn't take it anymore and switched to taking it at night - made a huge difference to me as i slept on it and felt it was better at night time for me - have yout tried taking it in the AM? there are some that do better taking it during the day - might want to look in to that
i am taking it at night and still able to wean off tramadol at the same time- it has to be at least 4 hours away from the LDN and i am told after a while i won't even need or want the tramadole - here's to fingers crossed
i still feel spaced out and a little detatched which apparently is normal during this phase? i'm also more fatigued in a weird way - low motivation, but i've also been told by Standfod doc (chronic fatigue clinic) that i need to really rest as this is the real and only way to rid myself of the pathogens and to completely heal and fix the brain damage and chronic encephalitis that we all have - i have epstein barr, coxackie, HHV-6 - going to test for chlamidya pnuemonia (no, it's not an STD it's a pathogen that can stay in your system and underline the CFS illness) and do another test for lyme as a test a few years ago came back positive and then a few years later was negative -
i think i experienced detox/herx reactions for the first 10 days on LDN - i had a body odor that was...omg ...embarrasing - i thought it would never go away and then it did - so i assume i detoxed some major stuff or my hormones, immune system made a major shift - but i still feel low energy - from posts i am reading this could take a few months to even out -
if anyone else has anything to add in regards to how long it takes please let me know !
 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
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5,288
Location
Canada
if anyone else has anything to add in regards to how long it takes please let me know

Usually a person will feel worse for a week or two at the current dose and then start feeling better. Then it will happen again when the dose increases. Some people find that they have an optimal dose that is lower than the recommended 4.5mg/day. I can't go past 2.5mg/day or I feel worse and stay that way until I lower the dose.

You may have low energy due to gluten or dairy interactions with the LDN. I had to stop eating anything with gluten otherwise I had extremely low energy, a sort of flu-fatigue on top of the usual CFS fatigue. Yogurt doesn't seem to cause any problems for me.
 
Messages
8
i don't do gluten or dairy so that wouldn't be a part of it - i assume there are a few things keeping me in a state of spacy flux
1- tapering off of tramadol while starting LDN while also adding new supplements to my protocol
2-lots going on at home right now with kids and general mom duties lending to more stress
3- doing serious rest per doc's orders which i'm not used to AT ALL - feeling like i gained weight because of so much rest
wondering about anyone else dealing with a transition like this and how they dealt with it and also how long it took - celebrex helps me feel 'clearer' but i can't take that everyday because it causes water gain
but because it helps me it does make me realize that i have some extra inflammation - could this be herxing?
 

belize44

Senior Member
Messages
1,662
@mobetterblues: I am encouraged by what you wrote, because the more I hear of what others are experiencing the more I understand what I might experience! I had to stop the LDN altogether for a week, because I pulled a tendon and had to take pain meds for about three days. I don't mind saying that I feel like crap, and can't wait to go back on the LDN (which I plan to do tomorrow.) I don't mind feeling lousy if it is for a greater good, but when it is just feeling lousy from pain meds; well, it is hard to take. I did recall someone else saying that one might feel a detoxing reaction from the LDN, which is probably what I was experiencing at first.
 
Messages
8
@mobetterblues: I am encouraged by what you wrote, because the more I hear of what others are experiencing the more I understand what I might experience! I had to stop the LDN altogether for a week, because I pulled a tendon and had to take pain meds for about three days. I don't mind saying that I feel like crap, and can't wait to go back on the LDN (which I plan to do tomorrow.) I don't mind feeling lousy if it is for a greater good, but when it is just feeling lousy from pain meds; well, it is hard to take. I did recall someone else saying that one might feel a detoxing reaction from the LDN, which is probably what I was experiencing at first.

Glad I can offer encouragement even though i'm probably as confused by the transition process as you are - i might offer more hope and say that today i took my usual amount of tramadol and i think it may have been too much - at least that's what i am hoping - i feel extra spacey and not in a good opiate 'clean and energized' way - so if it's too much then maybe the LDN is starting to take over and work and perhaps i need to titrate down on the tramadol again.
crossing fingers
 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
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5,288
Location
Canada
could this be herxing?

From what I understand of a genuine Herx response it would be far more intense than what you're experiencing. If the LDN is working then you'll feel worse for awhile because your immune system is starting to work better than before. You're bound to experience cold and/or flu type symptoms for a week or two. For most people, once those symptoms pass and they start to feel better, they up the dose by 0.5 - 1mg and repeat the unpleasantness until reaching 4.5mg/day or whatever lower amount they can tolerate.

You started at 1.5mg/day which might have been a little too much. I started at 0.125mg/day and increased by that amount every few days. I haven't had the cold/flu type symptoms that many people have encountered and wonder if it's due to my very gradual dose increase.
 
Messages
8
From what I understand of a genuine Herx response it would be far more intense than what you're experiencing. If the LDN is working then you'll feel worse for awhile because your immune system is starting to work better than before. You're bound to experience cold and/or flu type symptoms for a week or two.

What about the fatigue? I mean, we all feel fatigue but this is a bit more- a bit heavier and heavy in the brain...
Have u heard of that subsiding as well?
 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
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5,288
Location
Canada
What about the fatigue? I mean, we all feel fatigue but this is a bit more- a bit heavier and heavy in the brain... Have u heard of that subsiding as well?

Whenever your immune system starts actively fighting something then fatigue is usually a natural side effect. Does it feel anything like cold or flu fatigue? The kind of fatigue where your body is saying 'Take it easy, lie down, don't use up energy that I need to fight off the invaders...'

The fatigue should wear off in two weeks at most. If it doesn't then you may want to lower your dose and see if you feel better. If that works then you could stay at the lower dose for awhile before increasing again.

As with all the comments here, talk with your doctor and take her/his advice along with other's experiences to arrive at a decision about dosing.
 
Messages
8
Whenever your immune system starts actively fighting something then fatigue is usually a natural side effect. Does it feel anything like cold or flu fatigue? The kind of fatigue where your body is saying 'Take it easy, lie down, don't use up energy that I need to fight off the invaders...'

The fatigue should wear off in two weeks at most. If it doesn't then you may want to lower your dose and see if you feel better. If that works then you could stay at the lower dose for awhile before increasing again.

As with all the comments here, talk with your doctor and take her/his advice along with other's experiences to arrive at a decision about dosing.

I can't tell- I mean, I'm always fighting an infection and some days are worse than others- it's kind of like I have this u dearly I g energy that wants to break through but there is a wall up- and I feel it around my brain I guess- so, perhaps the inflammation is up which could mean that yes, more infection fighting- maybe I'll take an anti inflammatory and see how that works-
But it also feels drug induced- not like a high, just like a blanket of unmotivation
 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
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5,288
Location
Canada
just like a blanket of unmotivation

That might be the endorphin blocking effect but it's supposed to wear off within a few hours once the body makes more endorphins. It's one of the reasons why it's usually recommended to take LDN at night, so that a person can sleep through the potentially depressive low-endorphin period.

Fatigue is very common. More info is available on Dudley's LDN site:
Potential side effects of LDN
Drugs to avoid while taking LDN