The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Davis speech from Millions Missing. Some new info on metabolic trap hypothesis

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Murph, May 13, 2018.

  1. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,960
    Likes:
    32,174
    USA
    This is now my personal opinion (that ME/CFS is at minimum several sub-types, but more likely several different diseases) although I have absolutely nothing scientific to back up this claim. It is just my opinion now.
     
    rel8ted, Aroa and ebethc like this.
  2. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes:
    978
    same here!

    CFS is a "bucket" for a bunch of immune illnesses w/o protocols and even basic answers... I think immune illnesses are a tsunami of b.s. that hit the human genome so fast that most people haven't woken up to what is happening...
     

    Attached Files:

  3. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

    Messages:
    944
    Likes:
    593
    I may be reading stuff into things here (especially as I just finished reading some circadian hormone related articles) but it sounds like he could - possibly?? - be suggesting a process which is supposed to occur overnight may be in a precarious state in some people.
    When combined with enough of a stressor or stressors predisposed people may be caught in a "trap".
    Still interested in seeing this theory develop.
     
    adambeyoncelowe likes this.
  4. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

    Messages:
    1,235
    Likes:
    4,580
    Intriguing speech. Looking forward to more details!
     
  5. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,960
    Likes:
    32,174
    USA
    I'm not sure if I understand? I definitely do not think that any of it is b.s. and I believe that all of it is very, very real. I just do not believe that it is all one thing vs. an illness with many sub-types or even several separate illnesses that got lumped into one (at least in the US) under the term "CFS".
     
  6. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

    Messages:
    935
    Likes:
    822
    I second that. It is not BS, this is very real. I found the chart of inverse relationship between infectious disease and immune disorders very interesting though. Vaccinations perhaps?
     
  7. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes:
    978
    lol... of course I believe that my illness is real... and of course I think the situation is b.s. :)

    I think that's exactly what I said :)
     
    adambeyoncelowe and Mel9 like this.
  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,832
    Likes:
    36,414
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Is this because you think that modern toxins, nutrient depletion, and other poisons and stressors push the genetic adaptations we have beyond their limits?

    I think Ron Davis has a tentative view that ME and CFS are so complex that one single definition might not really match the reality. One biomarker might not either. How medicine defines an illness is often not as clear cut as most doctors make it out. As a result one single cure delivered one way will probably not be enough for everyone.
     
  9. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes:
    978
    I think "CFS" is a big bucket of undefined, nebulous immune illnesses - def not a single illness, and probably not even a single illness w subtypes

    I don't think that the human genome changes that much in 1-2 generations, so it must be something in the environment - or, more likely, a combination of things - but I don't know...
     
  10. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,960
    Likes:
    32,174
    USA
    Sorry I was confused when you said that immune illnesses were a tsunami of BS! You meant the labeling of different illnesses as "CFS" is the b.s. part? (I know you believe your illness is real and that wasn't what I meant at all)! Sorry for my confusion.

    I agree with this and I think just the word b.s. through me off. No worries!
     
    ebethc, Mel9 and adambeyoncelowe like this.
  11. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

    Messages:
    4,635
    Likes:
    12,500
    South Australia
    It's not even a hypothesis as there are no specific testable ideas yet. At best they're holding back their specific ideas, but I don't think that is helpful for the field (unless they want to take all the credit for a discovery...)
     
  12. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes:
    1,571
    United States, New Hampshire
    upload_2018-5-15_13-25-50.png
    Hi ebethc - If you look at the right hand side of this picture. You see the "incidence of immune disorders" starts to increase dramatically around 1950. The first widely used antibiotics came out in the late 1940's. I don't think that's a coincidence.

    Since then they have become more and more potent and are being used more and more often. I think there is a very strong connection between antibiotics causing dysbiosis and increased intestinal permeability and the big increase in immune disorders.

    I also don't think it's a coincidence that the 4 NIH funded ME/CFS research centers are focused on 4 things. The gut, immune system, metabolomics and the brain.

    I think dysbiosis and an increased intestinal permeability, ties all 4 of these things together. The researchers have to show how it's all connected in the body though, biochemically.

    Hopefully, with a little luck and all their expertise and acquired knowledge, this will happen sooner rather than later.:thumbsup:

    Jim
     
  13. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes:
    978
    No worries... I am frequently confused :)

    I mean that the immune illnesses are a tsunami of b.s. (including but not limited to CFS), as in the fact that this exists and we have to deal w it is complete b.s... when I wake up in the morning and still feel lousy even though there's so much I want to do and have to do in life and my body isn't cooperating... it's b.s.
     
  14. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,832
    Likes:
    36,414
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    My interpretation was that they are actually about to test their hypotheses, they have been working on the tests.
     
  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes:
    978
    I agree that my illness is real...
     
    Gingergrrl likes this.
  16. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes:
    978
    yes, the "hygiene hypothesis" is a popular theory of immune illness...I think it's a solid idea, but we don't know..

    who's doing work on gut besides lipkin? he's really focused on the viral - gut connection... I don't think he's looking at genes... e.g., I homozygous for FUT2 mutations, but I don't know if anyone's even looking at that...
    https://metabolichealing.com/fut2-gene-mutations-your-gut-flora/
     
  17. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes:
    1,571
    United States, New Hampshire
    Dr. Derya Unutmaz is also doing research on the microbiome/immune system interaction and metabolism, etc.

    Here is a breakdown of what each research center is doing.

    upload_2018-5-15_14-50-55.png
    LINK
     
  18. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes:
    978
    Is jackson lab a private lab, funded by big pharma?
     
  19. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes:
    1,571
    United States, New Hampshire
    I just did some searching and couldn't find any connection of big pharma to Jackson Labs. The NIH is funding their ME/CFS research.

    Jim
     
    Murph and ebethc like this.
  20. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

    Messages:
    935
    Likes:
    822
    Professor Unutmaz appears to be a really nice person and an Open minded Scientist
     
    Murph, ebethc and ljimbo423 like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page