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David Tuller: Trial by Error Cont'd: The New Fitnet trial for kids

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Kati, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    http://www.virology.ws/2016/11/21/trial-by-error-continued-the-new-fitnet-trial-for-kids/
    Another great read. David made requests both on Facebook and Twitter to leave comments at the link above.



    Exerpt:

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    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
    mango, Jan, Bidding lady and 32 others like this.
  2. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Shared the article on my Facebook page. Its really the same story, the same issues, the same problems, the same hype, almost every time. This is something that the entire medical profession should be against, but most don't even know there is an issue.
     
  3. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    And most don't want to know.
     
    Jan, Jo Best, snowathlete and 7 others like this.
  4. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    Unbelievable. These people have no shame at all. If Knoop had a shred of integrity left, he would have ruled himself out of consideration for the committee.

    Independent review, my arse.
     
    Jan, Jo Best, Invisible Woman and 7 others like this.
  5. AndyPR

    AndyPR Cookies for Tired Sam

    Shared and commented on.
     
    MEMum, Invisible Woman, justy and 5 others like this.
  6. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Did Crawley and her group attend IACFSME? Why not? Ah, too far...
    Did Crawley and her group attend Invest in ME? Why not? Ah. No excuse.

    And yes, @alex3619 things have not changed. Conflicts of interest, lies, press release, egos, strong ties enough to eject and evict really smart scientists (Jonathan Kerr comes to mind) but there are others. and really really bad science. The one thing that changes is we have a very stubborn investigative journalist who knows his way around science, and who is not afraid of uncovering the truth.

    Share David's work widely.
     
    Jo Best, Jan, Bidding lady and 16 others like this.
  7. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    There is a lot in medicine of the quality of ask no questions and hear no lies. Much of that is in psychiatry. We need psychiatry, or something like it, but we don't need a broken psychiatry and psychiatric system.
     
    Jo Best, OhShoot, Solstice and 3 others like this.
  8. dreampop

    dreampop Senior Member

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    He might want to add Dr. Rowe's and Dr. Stewart's letter of criticism of Crawley's 50% of kids or whatever have CFS.
     
    Bidding lady, MEMum and trishrhymes like this.
  9. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Do you have a link to these?
     
  10. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    Another excellent article by David Tuller, an indepth analysis of everything that's going wrong with Fitnet.

    Great point about PEM and NICE criteria:

     
    Bidding lady, MEMum, Dolphin and 7 others like this.
  11. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    About "recovery" in the Dutch trial (we've yet seen these arguments, but the issue is very clearly summed up by Tuller):

     
    MEMum, Dolphin, A.B. and 3 others like this.
  12. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    Another important point:
     
  13. Chrisb

    Chrisb Senior Member

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    It would be interesting if there were still in existence somewhere tapes or recordings of a talk (or possibly more than one talk) given to a meeting of the MEA probably in the early 1990's when Peter Behan was the guest speaker. I remember him being excoriating in his criticism of those who failed to distinguish between chronic fatigue and ME.

    It would be useful to show unbelievers the advances in medical knowledge over the last 25 years.
     
    Jan, Bidding lady, OhShoot and 6 others like this.
  14. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    @charles shepherd ?
     
  15. Artstu

    Artstu Senior Member

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    He said he's taking a break for a few days, guessing he'll pick it up when he's back in the ME internet village.
     
  16. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member

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    It is difficult to get through with criticisms when people trust the "objective" academic process and institutions in such extent it becomes naive. Here, as example, a tweet from a professor in biology discussing PACE with Tuller.

     
    Jo Best, Snow Leopard, Jan and 9 others like this.
  17. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    Gundersen has an agenda I think, I've seen other ridiculous responses from him.
     
  18. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    Who are these mythical 'evaluators' Gundersen believes in? Maybe they live at the bottom of his garden? They all too often, as with Knoop above, turn about to be the same people churning out the junk science.
     
  19. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

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    Gunderson is a biologist and against all (good) critisme from patiënts on science, that is dangerous hey said!
    So scientists can say what ever they want, we patiënts must obey the great great scientists like Gunderson e.a. Like cheeps.
     
    Jo Best and trishrhymes like this.
  20. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    You know this article highlights the key issue if we keep the CFS name, they can keep lumping us with the CF people. I think we need a name change ASAP and to start with require PEM. and maybe other studies can include the non PEM. Or everytime we do a study we analyze the data in distinct soubgroup PEM or no PEM.
     
    SamanthaJ, Jan, Bidding lady and 12 others like this.

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