Daily Mail - yoga cures myalgic encephalomyelitis

[Hip]

@eafw

Your last comment may be amusing, but you did not answer the question I asked, which was:

Are you really suggesting that all these ME/CFS recovery stories in the media are deliberately planted by someone or some organization(s) to further their political agenda?

 

[Hip]

I actually, literally Laughed Out Loud at that.

Perhaps at some point you ought to take a trip to Russia or China, and study how the media is controlled and shackled there. Then you may appreciate what it means to have a free press, and freedom of speech.

 

[Sherpa]

Not claiming any sort of 'cure' but I can say that a committed yoga practice, carefully paced to my current energy level, has been extremely helpful in reducing muscle tension and increasing energy levels.

 

[jimells]

I guess though if ME/CFS can slowly go into remission, and someone is following a particular therapy like yoga during that time, they may assume the therapy was the cure, whereas the cure may have been spontaneous.

Well, the longest/most improved remission I've ever had was in 2008 while I was building a foundation, buying, and setting up my trailer house. Therefore I have concluded that the cure for ME is to do some residential construction. I guarantee it works, and for only $60 I'll send you the details, but only if you promise to keep them a secret.

 

[jimells]

Perhaps at some point you ought to take a trip to Russia or China, and study how the media is controlled and shackled there. Then you may appreciate what it means to have a free press, and freedom of speech.

A free press? Freedom of Speech? Hahahahaha! You are really funny.

I'm sorry. I'm sure you honestly believe that. I truly hope you will look into whether or not we really have a "free press", and its role in maintaining the institutions of social control. I suggest a good place to start is by reading Noam Chomsky and his discussions of "the Manufacture of Consent":

the mass media of the United States "are effective and powerful ideological institutions that carry out a system-supportive propaganda function by reliance on market forces, internalized assumptions, and self-censorship, and without overt coercion"

When it comes to a free press in "The West", self-censorship is the standard. It's much more subtle and effective than the meat hammer approach of government censors. Instead of requiring government review, the US depends on the New York Times to voluntarily submit articles "for comment". The NYT has admitted to holding at least one important story for over year, at the request of Uncle Sam. If that isn't censorship, I don't know what is.

 

[IreneF]

A family member was a reporter for over 20 years. What media outlets want are eyeballs. They are not there as arms of some shadowy all-powerful controlling corporate state. They are there to make money.

 

[GracieJ]

Best entertainment I have seen all day. Thanks for the laughs!!

 

[Hip]

Are you suggesting that there is no massive public relations industry that spends billions and billions to control messages propagated via the mass media?

Of course not. Nearly all major organizations have a public relations department which works to put out the stories they would like to get in the press. There are all sorts of ways a corporation or organization can place its own message in the media. Did you know that there are even places where you can hire Wikipedia writers who are experts in taking control over a Wikipedia article, and placing the content that is required into the article.

Or just that there are no PR hacks at work in regards to ME?

It is well known that the insurance industry stands to gain if ME/CFS is made to appear as if it has a psychosocial etiology, and certainly there is evidence of insurance companies lobbying government on these issues. And common sense will tell you that they will be doing lots of this lobbying.

However, this does not mean that I am suddenly going to believe that stories in the media about patients recovering from ME/CFS by eating a raw food diet are all planted. In fact, if anything such stories might be against their interests, as diet or yoga are physical interventions, suggesting a physical not a psychosocial etiology to ME/CFS.

If you start believing these press articles of recovery are plants, then next you'll be thinking that the patients on this forum who report major remission from ME/CFS are also plants.

A free press? Freedom of Speech? Hahahahaha! You are really funny.

I'm sorry. I'm sure you honestly believe that. I truly hope you will look into whether or not we really have a "free press", and its role in maintaining the institutions of social control. I suggest a good place to start is by reading Noam Chomsky and his discussions of "the Manufacture of Consent":

Like all terms, concepts and measurements, the concepts of a free press and free speech are relative ones. That should be obvious.

We talk about having these freedoms in the West, because we see that in relation to countries like Russia or China, we do have a great deal more freedom.

Because of this freedom, the press in the West can keep an eye on government, and can act to keep the government and other institutions in check. The press in the West can freely choose which political parties to support or to decry. Sometimes they can topple government (eg: Woodward & Bernstein). But if you are a Chinese journalist, try decrying the Communist party, and see what happens.


I quite like Chomsky, but glancing at the Wikipedia link you provided to his Manufacturing Consent leaves me with some reservations about his judgement, when he says: "since the end of the Cold War (1945–91), anticommunism was replaced by the War on Terror as the major social control mechanism."

Wow, so Chomsky is suggesting that both anticommunism and the war on terror were set up as means of social control!?! Now it is me who is laughing out loud. He must have read a bit too much Orwell when he wrote that one. However, I do in general like Chomsky and his ideas.

Don't tell me you also believe that anticommunism and the War on Terror were set up as deliberate social control mechanism? That is a pretty wacky conspiracy theory as far as I am concerned.

 

[IreneF]

Certain publications (or tv stations, etc.) like to run "feel-good" stories to feed the appetite of many people for "inspiration" or "uplift". These are not medical stories; they involve no fact-checking or medical background. They need to be plausible--no one is going to believe you if you claim you grew another head--but they are usually of the "I was a cripple but I threw away my crutches after I did ________" pattern.

 

[eafw]

@eafw

Your last comment may be amusing, but you did not answer the question I asked, which was:

Are you really suggesting that all these ME/CFS recovery stories in the media are deliberately planted by someone or some organization(s) to further their political agenda?

The answer is there in my response. In summary: don't be so ridiculous.

Gingergrrl commented that she thought in the UK, "they" (whoever "they" might be, some secret group presumably)

And if you need to know where your "reasoning" goes off the rails you spell it out in this quote here

"Some secret group presumably ...."

Why would you presume that ? No one has spoken about "secret groups". People are talking about the media and public institutions and the wider cultural beliefs around illnesss and disability. Where on earth do "secret groups" come into it ?

Again, don't be so ridiculous.

 

[Raines]

Lol "Daily Mail".
Not even going to bother reading it

your comment reminded me of Russell Howard's Daily Mail everything gives you cancer song.
which inspired me to search for it, and it made me smile
so I'm posting it here, maybe it'll make someone else smille too

 

[Hip]

And if you need to know where your "reasoning" goes off the rails you spell it out in this quote here

"Some secret group presumably ...."

Why would you presume that ? No one has spoken about "secret groups". People are talking about the media and public institutions and the wider cultural beliefs around illnesss and disability.

Again, don't be so ridiculous.

Contrary to what you just said, read what @jimells wrote above:

Are you suggesting that there is no massive public relations industry that spends billions and billions to control messages propagated via the mass media? Or just that there are no PR hacks at work in regards to ME?

So @jimells is certainly implying that there are groups which spend billions to control messages planted in the mass media. And I am in agreement with @jimells on this: yes there are without doubt such groups, and they certainly don't advertise the fact that they are manipulating the media. Secrecy is important.

One such example of a secret collusion was the case of the philosopher Roger Scruton, who some years ago was often found publishing very interesting essays on various subjects in the broadsheet newspapers. However, it came to light that he had been paid by the tobacco industry to write articles, with a philosophical flavor, portraying smoking in a positive light. Unfortunately for him, his secret deal with the tobacco industry came to light, and his reputation took a dive as a result.

I have no evidence for it, but I would not be entirely surprised if it came to light that the numerous newspaper articles that Wessely is able to get published, which portray ME/CFS as a psychogenic condition, were the result of an industrial collusion. Based on example cases such as Roger Scruton's, that is plausible. And it does not have to be such a vulgar arrangement as "cash for articles". The arrangement can be more implicit.

Then again, there may not be any collusion at all, and that's just as likely. Wessely may just be representing himself and his ideas. His ego is such that probably feels the need to constantly be in the papers, like a celebrity of psychobabble.

 

[eafw]

some secret group ... a strange conspiracy theory.

yes there are without doubt such groups

Thanks for the clarification.

Your stance is basically that these groups do not exist and also that they do exist. There is no media manipulation and there is media manipulation. No forces pulling the strings behind the scenes and at the same time, yes there are forces pulling the strings behind the scenes. Sort of all bases covered then ?

OK.

 

[MeSci]

Thou I was an experienced meditator, I lost the ability to meditate with the ME. I couldnt figure this out until my EEG scans showed my brain waves dont react how they should when you shut your eyes and relax. I had ME EEG abnormalities..

I was never experienced at meditation, but when I tried it after getting ME, I just got dizzy or sleepy.

 

[MeSci]

I have no evidence for it, but I would not be entirely surprised if it came to light that the numerous newspaper articles that Wessely is able to get published, which portray ME/CFS as a psychogenic condition, were the result of an industrial collusion. Based on example cases such as Roger Scruton's, that is plausible. And it does not have to be such a vulgar arrangement as "cash for articles". The arrangement can be more implicit.

Then again, there may not be any collusion at all, and that's just as likely. Wessely may just be representing himself and his ideas. His ego is such that probably feels the need to constantly be in the papers, like a celebrity of psychobabble.

It sounds as though you have not been following the threads about the Science Media Centre, and perhaps have not seen this document (pdf, 939 kb). Quote (had to make an image as couldn't copy the text for some strange reason).

 

[eafw]

(had to make an image as couldn't copy the text for some strange reason).

Sometimes downloading and then opening in adobe reader works if the direct weblink doesn't, or dragging the downloaded file into a browser window is also a workaround for this.

Another key quote:

"The SMC jointly nominated Simon Wessely for the inaugural Sense About Science John Maddox Prize
for Standing up for Science for his courage and bravery in speaking out on CFS in the face on
intimidation, which Simon won."

 

[MeSci]

Sometimes downloading and then opening in adobe reader works if the direct weblink doesn't, or dragging the downloaded file into a browser window is also a workaround for this.

I was trying to copy from the Adobe reader document, and had copied from this document before. Think my computer needs a virus check and cleanup! I've had a few other weird things happen today.

 

[Aurator]

"The SMC jointly nominated Simon Wessely for the inaugural Sense About Science John Maddox Prize
for Standing up for Science for his courage and bravery in speaking out on CFS in the face on
intimidation, which Simon won."

Yes, courage and bravery in the field of conflict; a conflict he is largely responsible for fomenting in the first place.

To say that he has bravely spoken out on CFS in the face of intimidation is a distortion so absolute that it is the very opposite of reality. Wessely has indeed spoken out on CFS - in a myopically and self-interested reductionist way that has been directly responsible for worsening the long term health of countless patients. Furthermore he has consistently hardened his heart against the harm many highly reputable critics have long been telling him his intransigence and self-serving hositility to biomedical research is causing.

When, in response to a small number of desperate patients making vague threats (and I don't see any actual death threats there), he enlists the support of cronies in the SMC to propagandize on his behalf and cast him in the role of a martyr for the truth, let us please make no mistake about what is actually going on. Far from being brave he is simply further putting the boot in on people he has already kicked into prostration; putting the boot in only because in their state of desperation these people in turn dare to "speak out on CFS", and in the face of a far greater and more potent intimidation than any Wessely alleges he has suffered.

Many of you need no reminder of all this. I say it only because the conflict still goes on and will go on for as long as certain people who should indeed "stand up for science" and get behind a search for the truth are people with a vested interest in ensuring that the truth is very slow in coming to light.

 

[Hip]

Thanks for the clarification.

Your stance is basically that these groups do not exist and also that they do exist. There is no media manipulation and there is media manipulation. No forces pulling the strings behind the scenes and at the same time, yes there are forces pulling the strings behind the scenes. Sort of all bases covered then ?

OK.

@eafw, I wish you would engage in discussion, rather than being facetious.


And please note you are blurring and misrepresenting the things I said.

I made a very specific statement about a very specific thing, namely: my view of the implausibility of @Gingergrrl's idea.

But yourself and @jimells have incorrectly interpreted what I said as a general blanket statement against the possibility of all media manipulation. I did not make such a general statement.


To spell it out for you: I am not suggesting that manipulation of the media does not happen; what I am saying is that the specific media manipulation strategy that @Gingergrrl described is to me implausible.

Now, if you think I am wrong here (with regards @Gingergrrl's idea), then please explain yourself. If you explain why coherently, you might even get me to change my mind.

 

[Hip]

It sounds as though you have not been following the threads about the Science Media Centre, and perhaps have not seen this document (pdf, 939 kb). Quote (had to make an image as couldn't cope the text for some strange reason).

I can't see that there is any evidence in the documents you uploaded of corporate collusion with Wessely (ie, rewarding Wessely for his newspaper article interviews).