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D-ribose - can it make you feel bad?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Sasha, May 13, 2013.

  1. Healthy Someday

    Healthy Someday

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    I can't take it. It makes me feel that fake hypoglycemic way (having hypo symptoms without actual low blood glucose). I have the fake hypoglycemia symptoms anyway so no D-Ribose for me.
     
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  2. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    I have a tendency for low blood sugar, and try to eat small amounts throughout the day because of this.

    So I was very nervous when I started taking D Ribose. Knowing that it could affect my blood sugar levels.

    I made sure I had it with food such as breakfast and dinner in the evening. I haven't had any problems. Which has been amazing, it's just been nothing but one big help to me. Considering that I am so intolerant to tablets, it's wonderful to be able to take something with no nasty side effects for me. I take the powdered form.
     
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  3. Ashwin

    Ashwin

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    Ribose is converted to ATP for energy, which is why you take it. However, it can also be converted to the Amino acids Tryptophan and Histidine. Tryptophan may be converted to Serotonin (5-Hydroxytryptamine). Serotonin is the Hormone/neurotransmitter that induces sleep. Perhaps the path that Ribose takes in the body depends on levels of Glucose in the tissues and activity of Enzyme systems involved and this might explain the differing effects in individuals. Would it help to take your dose at bedtime?
     
  4. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    I'm giving this another go.
    It seems I have a mutation in the AMPD1 gene which is involved in enegy production and could potentially mean that I am losing a lot of AMP and my body has to make more. So D-ribose could help with that.
    I took some this evening with my evening meal and feel a little different but I'm not sure how to describe it - sort of stimulated perhaps? But I still feel tired and fatigued like normal. I want to give it a few days if possible, though I do have a mild headache from it. The headache is hard to explain too, I sorta feel like i have a headache but thinking about it, my head does not hurt. Not sure how else to explain that. I'll try and keep up a few days and see.
     
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  5. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Does 'tired but wired' describe it? That is what it did to me except much much worse than usual. I also felt as though I had a furnace burning inside, whilst my skin felt cold and shivery. Mentally I felt very jittery. Sleep was impossible. Horrible. A common reaction, I think. Not entirely unlike what I had with Prozac, which I also had to stop quickly, although that was more mental and less physical.

    No way could I persevere with either of those, and I have no confidence that it would have been wise to do so, at least not without very close supervision and support.
     
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  6. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Mildly, perhaps. Not sure. It certainly is increasing my serotonin because I was lying in bed last night grinning at nothing. Not sure why - it was a bit odd.
     
  7. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    I also got the tired but wired when first starting Ribose, it causes a couple of definite and a whole number of possible changes to occur when 'energy comes to town'. For me those past over quite quickly and were gone in a few days. I have had one or two messages form people it did not agree with though. What you describe sounds very much like a mild hypoglycaemia (low blood sugar) - that can be avoided by (for example) taking it with breakfast cereal, bread or some other form of carbohydrate.
    If you feel more 'drunk and doped' then it's a tougher call, I know some people feel it causes 'bugs in the gut' to produce alcohol.
     
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  8. Gamboa

    Gamboa Senior Member

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    Last October I started taking D-ribose along with other supplements that are recommended for mitochondrial repair- acetly-L-carnitine, lipoic acid, magnesium, and CoQ10. I am sort of following Dr. Myhills protocol which my present doctor, Dr. B. Hyde and my naturopath both endorse.

    I'll try and find the link but you can find all the info about these supplements by googling mitochondria and ME/CFS. I believe, as do more and more people, that this is one of the big areas of defect in our disease and one that can be treated.

    Since October I have found a MASSIVE improvement in my fatigue levels and brain fog. A few times I have run out of ribose and not replaced it for a few weeks and have sunk back down to pre-supplement levels of illness. Once I start back again on the regime it takes about 3 days to feel somewhat OK again. I am by no means cured, or even well, but definitely improved and able to do more than before.

    I also think you need to supplement with all the ingredients for your depleted mitochondria. You can add lots of magnesium and ribose but if you are totally deficient of CoQ10 or acetly-L-carnitine, the other stuff can't work as well so you might not notice a benefit.

    I am noticing now that right after taking my ribose I feel unwell. I will be feeling great right before, I take my ribose and I have to lie down since I feel terrible fatigue, headachy and my head just feels heavy, foggy and awful. I am fairly sure this is due to hypoglycemia. It goes away after about half an hour. I am trying to take it with glucose or other types of food but so far it hasn't helped.
     
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  9. GlosGirl

    GlosGirl

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    For all those who find that d-ribose makes their hypoglycemic symptoms worse:

    I have fairly grim reactive hypoglycemia, and use bio-identical progesterone creme to completely prevent the symptoms, by using it a couple of minutes before carbs. I am taking d-ribose now too, to pretty good effect so far, and as it definitely induces the hypoglycemia I'm using the progesterone creme for that too - and no problem at all.
     
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  10. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    This makes so much sense. Thanks for this post. I took D-Ribose for the first time in the afternoon and fell sleep by 7:00PM ... It was very strange because I was expecting lots of energy. Your post has shed some light on this subject.
     
  11. Jennifer J

    Jennifer J Senior Member

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    Hi, everyone. I started d-ribose powder 4 days ago. I'm doing the go low, go slow approach. I'm taking about 1.5 grams after my morning (which is late afternoon/evening) food, today I took less than 1 gram. I've noticed I'm feeling extra wired but tired and anxious. Strange cause this hits me hours later and then hours after I wake up, too. This anxious feeling is new to me.

    Woke up this morning very crashed and spacey. Generally don't feel spacey. Foggy yes, but not this kind of spacey. At times can barely read or take words in. After I took it today and the first day I took it, I became very sleepy and spacey and cold.

    Was wondering if the tired but wired and anxious was my body adjusting to the changes this is creating and if I should go lower and continue days longer and see how this goes? I had high hopes that this could help me, I really, really need to have more energy.

    As far as my fatigue after eating, ? - hoping it's not a reactive hypoglycemia reaction, thought maybe it's too much food in a short period of time, it generally takes me 4 or more hours to slowly eat because can't get out of bed to dish things out, with taking ribose been eating my food in a 1/2 hour to an hour. My food: 1 cup yogurt, 1/2 cup soy milk, a little packet of oatmeal (no sugar) and raisins, and a teaspoon of olive oil.

    Any thoughts, I tried to read this thread again, but my brain can't take the more involved parts in right now. Thank you. :hug:

    Hi, @snowathlete how did it go?
     
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  12. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    @Jennifer J Perhaps take a few days off the ribose and then try again with the same dose and see if you have the same reaction.

    I had no unpleasant side effects. I started at 4g and was amazed how the pain eased in my hands in the first hour and I also noticed I had a couple of hours extra energy that I was able to use with what seemed no serious payback. But I had to discontinue ribose because I think it may have done me damage long term. I will not be taking ribose again.

    Reactions that I have read of other members experiences of ribose are:
    1. Anxiety, agitation. Had to discontinue.
    2. No noticeable affect good or bad.
    3. Noticeably helps relieve some pain and gives extra energy.
     
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  13. Jennifer J

    Jennifer J Senior Member

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    Thank you, @rosie26! Good idea to take a few days off and try again and see.

    Oh, so sorry to hear. :( :hug: Curious, what long term damage it may have caused you if you have the energy to use to say? I hope it changes and gets better for you.
     
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  14. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    Oops, I shouldn't say long term damage when I am not sure if it was the ribose but I just don't feel comfortable taking it anymore. In regards to the damage I have lots more heat and burning symptoms.
     
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  15. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Hi Jennifer,

    I'm type I diabetic in addition to having M.E. and those sound exactly like hypoglycemia symptoms. It's not reactive hypoglycemia in the sense a doctor would expect it to occur but will feel the same.

    The Ribose will take effect much faster than your oatmeal gets into your bloodstream. Three questions before I give any opinion:
    1. After you have slept does you have any new symptoms? E.g. feeling sweaty, headache, anything else?
    2. How do you generally react to small amounts of carbohydrate?
    3. Do you have any food intolerances that rapidly affect how you feel?
    Brian
     
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  16. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Hi, @Jennifer J,

    Here are some comments I made after my brief encounter with d-ribose (taken from here in case you haven't been able to read them):

    "from Erica Verrillo's e-book:

    "Dr. Cheney has observed that fully one-third of his patients cannot tolerate D-Ribose. To test for sensitivities, an initial small dose (1 to 2 grams a day) is recommended. PROS. D-Ribose appears to be generally well tolerated by people with CFS/ ME. Patients usually notice improvement in energy levels within two or three days, although one patient commented that “within an hour, it was like a super thick fog bank had dissipated.” D-Ribose works particularly well with brain fog, daytime sleepiness and hypersomnia. CONS. Some patients report that D-Ribose makes them sleepy, and that it saps them of energy. Those who take high doses (15 grams a day) have reported diarrhea, nausea, and headache."

    Verrillo, Erica (2012-09-14). Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: A Treatment Guide, 2nd Edition (Kindle Locations 12956-12962). Erica Verrillo. Kindle Edition.

    I could not tolerate it. I didn't feel tired, but like there was a war going on inside me. Most unpleasant."

    "many of us (including me) improve after reducing carb (especially sugar and grain) intake, in line with the lactic acidosis theory of ME and other autoimmune conditions. Abnormal carb digestion makes the colon acidic, and we also make too much lactic acid in our muscles and presumably also our neurons."

    "Just found this file I made during my brief flirtation with d-ribose (I have put an interesting/possibly-significant bit in red):

    from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1904121

    Klin Wochenschr. 1991 Feb 26;69(4):151-5.
    Ribose administration during exercise: effects on substrates and products of energy metabolism in healthy subjects and a patient with myoadenylate deaminase deficiency.
    Gross M, Kormann B, Zöllner N.

    Medizinische Poliklinik, Universität München, FRG.

    Abstract

    Nine healthy men and a patient with myoadenylate deaminase deficiency were exercised on a bicycle ergometer (30 minutes, 125 Watts) with and without oral ribose administration at a dose of 2 g every 5 minutes of exercise. Plasma or serum levels of glucose, free fatty acids, lactate, ammonia and hypoxanthine and the urinary hypoxanthine excretion were determined. After 30 minutes of exercise without ribose intake the healthy subjects showed significant increases in plasma lactate (p less than 0.05), ammonia (p less than 0.01) and hypoxanthine (p less than 0.05) concentrations and a decrease in serum glucose concentration (p less than 0.05). When ribose was administered, the plasma lactate concentration increased significantly higher (p less than 0.05) and the increase in plasma hypoxanthine concentration was no longer significant. The patient showed the same pattern of changes in serum or plasma concentrations with exercise with the exception of hypoxanthine in plasma which increased higher when ribose was administered.

    from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1776826

    Ann Nutr Metab. 1991;35(5):297-302.
    Effects of oral ribose on muscle metabolism during bicycle ergometer in AMPD-deficient patients.
    Wagner DR, Gresser U, Zöllner N.

    Medizinische Poliklinik, Universität München, FRG.

    Abstract

    Three patients with AMP deaminase deficiency (AMPD deficiency) performed exercise on a bicycle ergometer with increasing work load without and with administration of ribose (3 g p.o. every 10 min, beginning 1 h before exercise until the end). The patients performed exercise until heart rate was 200 minus age. Maximum capacity was not increased by administration of ribose, but postexertional muscle stiffness and cramps disappeared almost completely in 2 of 3 AMPD-deficient patients. Plasma concentrations of lactate and inosine were increased in AMPD-deficient patients after oral administration of ribose. Our data suggest that ribose may both serve as an energy source and enhance the de novo synthesis of purine nucleotides.

    from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11641371

    J Appl Physiol. 2001 Nov;91(5):2275-81.
    No effects of oral ribose supplementation on repeated maximal exercise and de novo ATP resynthesis.
    Eijnde BO, Van Leemputte M, Brouns F, Van Der Vusse GJ, Labarque V, Ramaekers M, Van Schuylenberg R, Verbessem P, Wijnen H, Hespel P.

    Exercise Physiology and Biomechanics Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, Faculty of Physical Education and Physiotherapy, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, B-3001 Heverlee, Belgium.

    Abstract

    A double-blind randomized study was performed to evaluate the effect of oral ribose supplementation on repeated maximal exercise and ATP recovery after intermittent maximal muscle contractions. Muscle power output was measured during dynamic knee extensions with the right leg on an isokinetic dynamometer before (pretest) and after (posttest) a 6-day training period in conjunction with ribose (R, 4 doses/day at 4 g/dose, n = 10) or placebo (P, n = 9) intake. The exercise protocol consisted of two bouts (A and B) of maximal contractions, separated by 15 s of rest. Bouts A and B consisted of 15 series of 12 contractions each, separated by a 60-min rest period. During the training period, the subjects performed the same exercise protocol twice per day, with 3-5 h of rest between exercise sessions. Blood samples were collected before and after bouts A and B and 24 h after bout B. Knee-extension power outputs were approximately 10% higher in the posttest than in the pretest but were similar between P and R for all contraction series. The exercise increased blood lactate and plasma ammonia concentrations (P < 0.05), with no significant differences between P and R at any time. After a 6-wk washout period, in a subgroup of subjects (n = 8), needle-biopsy samples were taken from the vastus lateralis before, immediately after, and 24 h after an exercise bout similar to the pretest. ATP and total adenine nucleotide content were decreased by approximately 25 and 20% immediately after and 24 h after exercise in P and R. Oral ribose supplementation with 4-g doses four times a day does not beneficially impact on postexercise muscle ATP recovery and maximal intermittent exercise performance.

    Per http://corvalen.douglaslabs.com/D-Ribose Abstracts/Fenstad 2008 Dose Effects of D-Ribose on Glucose and Purine Metabolites Int J Nutri.pdf called 'Dose Effects of D-Ribose on Glucose and Purine Metabolites' (not apparently in peer-reviewed journals and poss conflicts of interests detected) d-ribose increase uric acid levels and also increased lactate levels in younger study group (24-30) but not older group (40-50) who had decreased lactate.

    Common to most studies appears to be hypoglycaemia. Some find a spike in insulin production."

    "Does 'tired but wired' describe it? That is what it did to me except much much worse than usual. I also felt as though I had a furnace burning inside, whilst my skin felt cold and shivery. Mentally I felt very jittery. Sleep was impossible. Horrible. A common reaction, I think. Not entirely unlike what I had with Prozac, which I also had to stop quickly, although that was more mental and less physical.

    No way could I persevere with either of those, and I have no confidence that it would have been wise to do so, at least not without very close supervision and support."

    These comments/contributions were made when my brain was still working, which it hasn't been doing well for about a year, so don't expect any in-depth responses!
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
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  17. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Wochenschr was done with patients who would be made ill by every form of carbohydrate, I struggle to understand how it got ethics approval. Those patients should not have an ME diagnosis since there is an identifiable cause of fatigue.

    Wagner was done on a group of patients that would have difficulty with any significant energy production since ATP is part of prurine metabolism. Unless members have these specific issues the results are unrepresentative.

    If we are going to look at conditions other than ME as per Wagner and Wochenshr there are myriads of papers showing benefits in heart disease.

    Finally you omitted Titelbaum's paper, and Myhill's paper both of which showed benefits involving Ribose administration. Both published in peer reviewed journals, both by individuals without conflict of interest.
     
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  18. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Smiling as I think about it. I got the same thing Snow.. felt a bit weird until I just decided to roll with it. In my case was Dopamine (the other pleasure hormone) though.
     
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  19. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    I am just trying to warn people who may suffer ill effects as some here have.

    Wochenschr was done with "Nine healthy men and a patient with myoadenylate deaminase deficiency". I don't have the brain power to analyse the other one, but Myhill is mentioned in another message here, and Teitelbaum certainly makes money out of M.E.

    I refer to Myhill and Teitelbaum in this paper in the thread at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-and-fibromyalgia-patients.18498/#post-281346:

    "I have just tried this and stopped it again rather quickly as I was getting terrible bloating/gas. I also noticed that the dermatitis on my palms had returned, after almost completely disappearing following a few weeks of a gut alkalising regime, which I started after reading the very credible evidence of benefit from this. (I've contributed here to a thread on this.) My blood pressure also shot up despite my medication for it. It's going down again now. I'm pretty annoyed that my progress has apparently been set back by this supplement, and want to warn others.

    Having just quickly looked at Dr Teitelbaum's and Dr Sarah Myhill's info on d-ribose I got the impression that it would help and was pretty free from side effects. Since getting apparent adverse effects myself I did some online searching today and found the following from scientific papers:

    1. It can cause sudden rises in insulin and marked and prolonged drops in blood sugar.
    2. In some people it causes increased levels of lactic acid/lactate in the blood. People with ME are already thought to produce too much lactate in the muscles during exertion - it's one of the causes of the muscle pain.
    3. D-ribose can also cause increases in uric acid, which can have a number of adverse consequences.

    You can see the evidence here if you can follow scientific language:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1904121
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1776826
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11641371

    and Dr Teitelbaum's site does sell d-ribose as well as other things he recommends, citing his own evidence. This has to give rise to at least some caution."
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
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  20. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    It was a little while ago now but basically it didn't do anything to help me so I stopped taking it.
     
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