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Cynocobalamin B12

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by heapsreal, Jun 28, 2014.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I want to know what is so really bad about it? we dont hear of masses of dead people from cyno injections etc
    So i have been digging around to find some answers.
    Every 1000mcg of cyno has 20mcg of cynanide.
    Unless i have read it wrong , a low risk of cyanide poisoning occurs at 5000mcg cyanide.

    so if someone was going to do 5000mcg of cyno 3 times a week thats 300mcg of cyanide, 4700 below where a possible low risk would occur.

    Theres other things i dont have info on ie how long does it take for cyanide to be expelled from the body. how well does the cynoB12 work compared to the others.

    If anyone has any more info, would appreciate learning more about this.

    http://jacknorrisrd.com/safety-of-cyanide-in-cyanocobalamin/
     
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  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    Poison or not, it never did anything for me.
     
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  3. GracieJ

    GracieJ Senior Member

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    It's a cheaper B12 for the manufacturers.

    I muscle test as allergic to cyanocobalamin. I wasn't feeling too well on it after a while. The less poison in the body, the better.
     
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  4. LisaGoddard

    LisaGoddard Senior Member

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    I mistakenly took the cyanoB12 and I started feeling unwell after about six months. The more B12 I took, the worse I felt. I stopped taking it once I realised and started back on methylb12 but it took a few months to recover.

    (I didn't realise that Solgar makes both forms so at the time, I thought I was getting a cheap deal on methylB12 but instead was getting cyanide poisoning?!)
     
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  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    i have used both hydroxo and cyno b12 injections and cant say i felt much of a difference between the two.

    I just wonder if those that are claiming not to use cyno what are their reasons, is it cyanide? It just seems the amount of cynanide is insignificant, i could be wrong or is it something else about it?? Are the supposed dangers dependent on the individual with some type of metabolism issue??

    lots of questions but cant find the answers?

    cheers!!
     
  6. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    I used the HB12 because Cheney had that in his protocol. It was 10,000 mcg/ml I think.
     
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  7. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Making the best use of B12 receptors??? This is one of the reasons to use an active form of folate, but I don't know if it applies to B12. (leaving the receptors free for the active form)

    Anecdotally, one member here did get into a life-threatening level of cyanide poisoning from cyanocobalamin. This person was taking high doses but within medical guidelines. Dr. Rich Van K and his doctor worked out a protocol to detox this person from cyanide. Maybe it also depends on the person's detoxification pathways and genetics?

    Sushi
     
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  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    trying to find info on cyanide metabolism, came across cyanide reacts with hydroxocobalamin to form b12. Cyanide seems to be in alot of things, so i think he already have exposure to it. I just wonder how long it takes for the body to eliminate it. Found it, one day to eliminate cyanide, but in a poisoning type dose does interact with atp and iron, does the small amount in cynocobalamin have an effect on us?? So theoretically using it 2-3 times a week one shouldnt see a build up of cyanide???

    What is cyanide’s mechanism of action?
    Cyanide has a high affinity for metals like cobalt and trivalent iron, and for sulfane compounds such as sodium thiosulfate which contains a sulfur-to-sulfur bond. In large doses, cyanide quickly binds with iron in cytochrome a3, preventing electron transport in the cytochrome. This stops oxidative phosphorylation and adenosine triphosphate (ATP) production. As a result, intracellular oxygen utilization ceases. Cells are then forced into anaerobic metabolism, creating lactic acid and leading to acid-base imbalances and metabolic acidosis.

    In small doses, cyanide can be metabolized into thiocyanate with the assistance of the hepatic enzyme, rhodanese. Thiocyanate is then excreted in urine. A small amount of cyanide can also be converted to carbon dioxide which leaves the body through exhalation. Some cyanide can react with hydroxycobalamin to form vitamin B12. Most cyanide leaves the body within one day.'
    http://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/emergency/chemical_terrorism/cyanide_tech.htm
     
  9. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    @heapsreal

    Dunno! I remember that this patient was on intense therapy for cyanide poisoning for about 3 months. As I remember (now there's a reliable tool! :rolleyes:) it was high doses of hydroxocobalamine and oxygen.

    Sushi
     
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  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Yup, high dose HydroxoB12 is actually a very conventional treatment for cyanide poisoning. It binds up the cyanide and takes it out.

    I doubt cyanoB12 is much of a problem in low doses for healthy people. But it doesn't make sense to burden an already struggling system with something additional which needs to be detoxed. Especially if there's any chance that detoxing isn't working too well!

    There also might be problems in converting the cyanoB12 to hydroxoB12 (storage) or methylB12 (methylation). So it's nice to cut out out some of the middlemen to see if that helps.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
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  11. end

    end

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    Same here

    Cyanide. I didn't know there was a safe level of poison? :)
     
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  12. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    According to most people´s gene test results on methylation and detox presented here, PWME seem to have detox problems in at least one pathway. Impaired methylation (lowered production of glutathione) and/or GST SNP´s that decreases the ability to bind/conjugate with glutathione.
     
  13. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    My understanding is its like iron, too much is deadly. paracetamol is the same and only becomes poison or toxic at certain doses.

    5000mcg of cyanide is the low risk of poisoning, so its not even poisoning at that level just a low risk.
    5000mcg of cynob12 contains only 300mcg of cyanide, so thats 16 times less then the low risk of possible poisoning and would be eliminated in 24hrs?

    I understand some may have detox issues but i assume it has to be for particular substances, if one took 10000 of cynob12 daily for extended periods of time then cyanide levels would build up. I guess to me the risks of cyanide poisoning seem greatly overexagerated.

    One of my reason for starting this thread was that to get hydroxo or methyl b12 at descent doses like 5000mcg/ml has to be from a compounding pharmacy and its dam expensive, im talking hundreds of $ per month. I did find a source of cyno b12 5000mcg/ml x 30ml for $18, 1-2 injections of these a week is something worth persuing of either b12.

    Having cfs is dam expensive when u start at all the bits and pieces we do, so im always on the lookout for bargain prices. So if anyone can match a similar priced source of injectable b12 of hydroxo or methyl b12, please share. Many overseas compounding pharmacys wont send stuff to australia?
     
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  14. end

    end

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    I understand what your saying mate, I really do. However, putting aside the cyanide factor with the cyano B12. You may see that the general feedback being a negative regarding any benefits relating to the use of the cyano B12. I think this phrase you should concentrate your efforts on - "So if anyone can match a similar priced source of injectable b12 of hydroxo or methyl b12, please share."

    You know Dr Cheney is fairly clever bloke and like @minkeygirl outlined above he must use the HB12 form for a good reason
     
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  15. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    @end I never found the HB12 to do anything for me so I eventually stopped.
     
  16. end

    end

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    I have found the Hydroxocobalamin needs to be used @5mg in conjunction with Methyltetrahydrofolate @800mcg. If I miss a dose of either it does not work ie I crash. I borrowed this dosing protocol from a close friend of mine who also has CFS/ME which he's doctor works closely with KDM. But of course there are always exceptions to the rule and what works in one patient does not always work in another

    Once again cyanocobalamin b12 does absolutely nothing for me at any dose & same go's for Folic acid --> waste of time and money for me
     
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  17. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    I took that way before anyone knew about MTHFR. I'm currently taking 1000 mcg Mfolate with 1000 mcg hb and mb12. I stopped the hb12 because I think it was exacerbating my brain fog. I'm going to test it Tuesday and if that is the case I'm going to switch to AD12.
     
  18. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    a few years ago now i had a good source of hydroxob12 and it help a little with energy etc so its not in my main arsenal of weapons so to speak, i would only add it if the price was right! I have used the sublingual b12s and didnt do anything as well as the methylfolate.

    I think alot of these types of issues coming down to those with alot of gut issues, maybe entero and just dont absorb the nutrients. Im not really in that profile.

    SO i am interested but willing to wait for a good sources.
     
  19. PennyIA

    PennyIA Senior Member

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    I don't know enough to think that the level in cyanocobalamin is a risk factor at all. But what I can say is that I only got sick about three to six months after I started taking it, folic acid and B6. I had high homocysteine levels and was told to take the cheapest over the coutner pills to reduce my risk of clotting. Had no insight at all into having MTHFR, or other detcox and methylation issues.

    I became toxic on B6 on extremely low dosage - something that my doctors told me was impossible. There is no test for folic acid toxicity nor B12 toxicity, but my blood levels for those vitamins were off the charts. BUT I had all the symptoms of b vitamin deficiency. After a lot of research I came upon the understanding that even without the digestive potential complications of absorbing b vitamins, it's feasible that I just can't process them properly in the synthetic form. I got tested for MTHFR to test my theory out. And EVERY time I take cyanocobalamin, I get worse. When I switch to methylfolate and methylcobalamin, I get better. Sadly, still not healed, but better.

    So, regardless of risk factors, I avoid it because it worsens my symptoms.
     
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  20. Tired of being sick

    Tired of being sick Senior Member

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    Methylcobalamin
    Chemical Compound
    Methylcobalamin is a cobalamin, a form of vitamin B. It differs from cyanocobalamin in that the cyanide is replaced by a methyl group. Methylcobalamin features an octahedral cobalt centre. Methylcobalamin can be obtained as bright red crystals. Wikipedia

    Have any of you tried this?

    Jarrow Formulas Methyl B12, Methylcobalamin
    by Jarrow
    555 customer reviews
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