Critterina's Histamine Intolerance Journal

[Critterina]

oops. Hope the rest of the fast is uneventful. I've been contemplating my 2nd fast, probably by Nov. I've eaten a small piece of avocado 2 days in a row.(Straw berry was not welcomed.) + near-daily spoonful yogurt & sauerkraut.

Thanks for your good wishes! Wow, if you can do yogurt and sauerkraut, you're really tolerating the histamines! I'm glad that overall you've had such a good result.

Not being one to learn from my mistakes, I tried some DIFFERENT herbal tea this morning, and it seems fine. Celestial Seasonings Cherry Berry. Nice and fruity, almost like I was eating something.

Yesterday I went out and worked in the yard, too, which tells you how well I've been doing. I replanted two large agave (waist and chest height) and one very small saguaro. And I ran around town buying things for appliance and electrical repair (because you can't finish all your repairs without something else breaking meanwhile!)

I think I had more inflammation than I realized, as my weight has dropped about 9 pounds instead of my usual 7 (6 of which come back within a day or two of eating). I am hungry and tired, but what do you expect?

9 hours to go!

 

[ahmo]

Yesterday I went out and worked in the yard, too, which tells you how well I've been doing. I replanted two large agave (waist and chest height) and one very small saguaro. And I ran around town buying things for appliance and electrical repair (because you can't finish all your repairs without something else breaking meanwhile!)

9 hours to go!

 

[Critterina]

I stopped the fast a few hours early (3 pm instead of dinner)...long story, but overall I just wasn't feeling well, and food fixed it. This morning I got more done before breakfast than I did all afternoon yesterday, so I think it was the right choice. I finished some clam chowder (yay!) that I'd made and frozen, and I did fine with it. I'm trusting that my body did enough cleaning out

@ahmo, I love your little fellows

Not that I was ready to eat my smiling friend, but I did feel more like smiling after I had something to eat!

 

[Critterina]

Wow, it's been 9 months without an entry. To catch up, in summary:

I worked out-of-town for October-January and couldn't fast during that time. Well, not 3 days. I tried a 2-day fast and didn't really see any results.

End of January I had finished work and was ready to come back home, but got sick, 103-104 fever, slept for a couple days, then headed home. Not on purpose, I had very little to eat those days; mostly I was unconscious. So, the last food to stay down was Friday breakfast. Then Sunday afternoon I had a piece of toast and some milk, and went back to sleep. Monday afternoon I had a turkey/avocado sandwich at the airport. I don't know if the fever combined with the partial fast seemed to make it more effective, but it seemed like it. For some strange reason, I temporarily stopped making the chemical that turns poop brown; it would have been khaki if it weren't for the avocado, which has a unique shade of green. I used enzymes and probiotics and everything returned to normal.

A couple weeks later I had a crackle in my lung. Infection. Antibiotics (Augmentin). Not too bad. I didn't fast until March, when I was feeling recovered enough. Not much improvement, there, though. I think maybe a gut-healing effort before the fast would have improved the outcome.

The beginning of May I had a cold, then just before Mother's Day/my mom's birthday, it started into a sinus infection. More antibiotics (Doxycycline). My mom was turning 94 and was just enrolled in hospice. She had not been well enough to celebrate Christmas with us, so I really wasn't going to miss her birthday, but I had to be on antibiotics long enough to be sure I didn't infect her. Unfortunately the Doxycycline did a number on my gut. I started going 6-7 days between bowel movements. I was also reacting much more to foods I'd previously started to tolerate, had a high content of undigested matter in my stools, and was hungry most of the time, like I was missing something in my diet.

After a few weeks of that I had to get serious about the gut rebuilding, especially since I'm due for another 3-day fast the end of June and I want it to work. I tried just probiotics, but they did nothing. Actually, I tried some slippery elm bark, triphala, Enzy brand fiber tablets, and Swedish bitters at this time, too. But I don't really like them and got some rectal bleeding.

So I upped my game, for the gut rebuilding, I'm using:

• Marshmallow root, 3x/day with meals
• Digestive Enzymes (Ultra veggie enzymes) with each meal.
• NAG, 1x/day at dinner, since I already take glucosamine chondroitin upon waking
• Larix (larch arabinogalactins) 2x/day breakfast/dinner
• Probiotics 1x/day. I started with a week of varied, then a week of Swanson's SBOs, now I'm doing a week of the 4X Pro-B (mail order from Costco)
• A large scoop (3T?) of unmodified potato starch and 1 t glucosamine, usually in the afternoon and shortly after the probiotic. Usually in cold milk

What's interesting is that even without the fast I'm tolerating a whole lot more foods than I was before: yogurt, cottage cheese, mild cheddar/Monterey jack cheese, lunch meat (Kirkland signature turkey and ham), pickles (Trader Joe bread and butter pickles), berries. I even cooked some meatballs and put one serving in the fridge overnight. That wasn't the best idea, but I wasn't really too bad. Yes, I KNOW you're supposed to eliminate all the foods that bother you for the 4R healing phase, but it hasn't really been necessary.

Since starting the above protocol, I've been almost normal. Mostly I've been able to control my upper respiratory symptoms with Flonase and Sudafed, and occasionally Afrin, which had been twice daily necessity. (I'm also having allergies.) My ears haven't felt pinched or popped, my scalp hasn't swollen along the skull seams, and my feet haven't broken out in eczema. My voice has been affected a little (it drops an octave or more when I really react).

I have high hopes that the next fast may put me to my pre-HI diet.

 

[NilaJones]

Hi, honey! You sure have been through the wringer . I am glad things are going better!

 

[Critterina]

Hi, honey! You sure have been through the wringer . I am glad things are going better!

Aww, you are so sweet! And I take that from someone who knows the wringer! It's been quite an education, but it has helped me find my voice. Maybe some other issues can be addressed now, too.

 

[Critterina]

Just a quick (yeah, really, who am I fooling?) update:

1. I fasted in September and October...overdue, but good experiences. Not a lot of side effects, kept up a lot of my daily activities. Results were OK, but inflammation returned. I'd love to capture the results of my first fast again - no reaction to histamines in foods for 3 weeks, then a slow return to sensitivity.

2. I started Annie Hopper's "retraining the brain" program, also known as Dynamic Neural Retraining System. My brain learned to react to histamines, it can certainly learn not to. I think it's a great program. My debilitating cat allergies seem to have vanished in the first week. But HI has been slower to respond. There's a thread here about it, with my entries starting on the bottom of the page 2.

3. I walked my head into a tree, resulting in a concussion, early December. No more DNRS training! I seem to be fully recovered, but having a hard time starting again.

4. Another fast January 12-15 (evening to evening). The 16th, a Monday, I had a super good day: no pain, energy to move from one thing to the next all day, including a 2 hour hike on rocky trails to begin with, and 3 hours of pulling desert broom (with a rock hammer and a hatchet) until the sun went down, with lots of activities in between.

But the fast itself was very unpleasant. I had a headache (which started before I missed my first meal) that lasted all three days. Maybe the headache was from a new chiropractic treatment the day before. And the inflammation returned in 2-3 days post-fast. However, my gut has objected with less and less diarrhea each fast, so no problems there. What is going on with the inflammation returning? My thoughts center on gut health and speed of reintroducing histamine-containing foods.

4A. My initial fast followed an 8 week 4R gut rebuilding program and a "week off" where we tested the leakiness of my gut (half way between 1 and 2 standard deviations). So, when I've done the fast without good gut health and experienced results that weren't lasting, I blamed gut health.

4B. My gut health was good this time - stools formed, brown, and hardly any visible undigested particles. Although I hadn't been doing the 4R program, I had been using Swanson's Soil Based Organisms and obviously digesting my food. Could it be that the Costco mail-order probiotics that I think was using the first time were better? Do I need the other support of the 4R program supplements?

4C. The first time, I was reintroducing foods about 3 per day - one at each meal, waiting to see if I reacted, then trying something else. Since then, I expect not to react and have whatever I want. Maybe a more orderly approach will be better.

Anybody, if you have thoughts about this, I'm happy to hear them! Thanks for your support over the years.

Critterina
P.S. I've been off work since Aug 15, but will be starting again soon I'm told (always subject to change). And yesterday I was diagnosed with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, hypermobility type (type III).

 

[ahmo]

oh, yikes, EDS. Maybe having it diagnosed is a good thing. There might be something useful for you at this blog, she also has EDS.
https://mastcellblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/12/canary/

 

[Critterina]

oh, yikes, EDS. Maybe having it diagnosed is a good thing. There might be something useful for you at this blog, she also has EDS.
https://mastcellblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/12/canary/

Thanks, @ahmo!

I agree, that a diagnosis is probably a good thing. I have a hard time getting doctors to look at me as an individual (as most people on this forum probably do) and wrap their head around my experience enough to give good advice. I hope that this will open the door to them believing the rest of it. But maybe I'm expecting too much. My endocrinologist (who 3 years ago said that I probably don't need a medicalert bracelet for my adrenal insufficiency) also said that I probably didn't need to see an EDS doctor. What's with that? I'm a zebra, not an ostrich!

I've opened your link and will read it now. Thanks!

...Wow! Can I double-like this link you sent? I have histamine intolerance (and would be sick even with her low-histamine recommendations), too. If I can digest this, I may ask for some more lab test or try combining different types of antihistamines. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

 

[Johnmac]

I have insomnia; 3 wakings a night is a given. But 5 is over the top!

I had vertigo for 5 months last year, starting in March. I was on my 3rd day, and it was getting worse each day, when I thought the fast might knock out whatever I have going on in my sinus/throat/gland areas, including the vertigo. It was actually a very big win for me to get rid of the vertigo; last year it was terrifying.

I know for sure that all dairy causes respiratory problems, and I suspect (hope) that that's part of my insomnia. I will let you know how the re-testing of everything else goes. I don't think I'm going to re-test right away. I might just avoid histamine foods and a few other things, and see if I can get rid of this congestion and swelling.

My neighbor's son is an EMT. I went over this morning and mentioned just finishing a 3 day fast to reset my immune system, and he just casually nodded.

Vertigo is a symptom of Meniere's Disease, which is sometimes autoimmune; & autoimmune, they say, begins in the gut. So that's one possibility.

I had mild Meniere's years ago, but in the course of curing certain (part-)autoimmune diseases (kidney disease, ankylosing spondylitis, RLS) the Meniere's also vanished.

 

[Johnmac]

Just a quick (yeah, really, who am I fooling?) update:

1. I fasted in September and October...overdue, but good experiences. Not a lot of side effects, kept up a lot of my daily activities. Results were OK, but inflammation returned. I'd love to capture the results of my first fast again - no reaction to histamines in foods for 3 weeks, then a slow return to sensitivity.

2. I started Annie Hopper's "retraining the brain" program, also known as Dynamic Neural Retraining System. My brain learned to react to histamines, it can certainly learn not to. I think it's a great program. My debilitating cat allergies seem to have vanished in the first week. But HI has been slower to respond. There's a thread here about it, with my entries starting on the bottom of the page 2.

3. I walked my head into a tree, resulting in a concussion, early December. No more DNRS training! I seem to be fully recovered, but having a hard time starting again.

4. Another fast January 12-15 (evening to evening). The 16th, a Monday, I had a super good day: no pain, energy to move from one thing to the next all day, including a 2 hour hike on rocky trails to begin with, and 3 hours of pulling desert broom (with a rock hammer and a hatchet) until the sun went down, with lots of activities in between.

But the fast itself was very unpleasant. I had a headache (which started before I missed my first meal) that lasted all three days. Maybe the headache was from a new chiropractic treatment the day before. And the inflammation returned in 2-3 days post-fast. However, my gut has objected with less and less diarrhea each fast, so no problems there. What is going on with the inflammation returning? My thoughts center on gut health and speed of reintroducing histamine-containing foods.

4A. My initial fast followed an 8 week 4R gut rebuilding program and a "week off" where we tested the leakiness of my gut (half way between 1 and 2 standard deviations). So, when I've done the fast without good gut health and experienced results that weren't lasting, I blamed gut health.

4B. My gut health was good this time - stools formed, brown, and hardly any visible undigested particles. Although I hadn't been doing the 4R program, I had been using Swanson's Soil Based Organisms and obviously digesting my food. Could it be that the Costco mail-order probiotics that I think was using the first time were better? Do I need the other support of the 4R program supplements?

4C. The first time, I was reintroducing foods about 3 per day - one at each meal, waiting to see if I reacted, then trying something else. Since then, I expect not to react and have whatever I want. Maybe a more orderly approach will be better.

Anybody, if you have thoughts about this, I'm happy to hear them! Thanks for your support over the years.

Critterina
P.S. I've been off work since Aug 15, but will be starting again soon I'm told (always subject to change). And yesterday I was diagnosed with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, hypermobility type (type III).

Thanks for the update @Critterina. I've just read your entire thread, which was really helpful.

Regarding histamine intolerance, histamine symptoms: Last June you were "almost normal", & now you mention "HI has been slower to respond..." As histamines are my present problem (so far as I can tell), can you tell us where you are at regarding reactivity to histamine foods etc?

Some random comments & questions (for you & anyone else interested):

* What’s the difference between histamine intolerance and having too much histamine in your system (e.g. histamine overdose from fermented foods)? I'm a beginner with this.

* I've never been conscious of histamine symptoms until eating lots of fermented foods thru 2016, to fix my gut (which it did nicely). When I ate the ferments the symptoms came; when I stopped them the symptoms gradually receded - so is it reasonable to assume that the symptoms are from histamine, maybe with some help from tyramine?

* In addition to migraine, extreme fatigue, runny nose, diarrhea, etc, when I am apparently histamine-poisoned, I have a pretty dark worldview, a kind of fraught intensity & tension (I feel it through my face & body), can’t face challenging tasks, avoid responsibilities, & people, am not especially rational, & can’t concentrate on anything but pleasurable activities. (About as close to psychosis as I’ve ever got I think: it made me think about the "histapenia" hypothesis.) But now I wonder if this is an entirely new thing, or if a low level of this syndrome has been there throughout my life – contributing to marriages & careers derailing, underachivement, etc.

* Do you or others have symptoms like the above?

* I just told a friend about the HI thing, & he remembered that he had several youthful psychotic episodes after working for some weeks unloading bags of wheat, breathing in lots of wheat dust, & getting near-fatal episodes of asthma. (The notion of "wheat psychosis" has been around for some years.)

* I was on the Freddd Protocol for a long time, & for the last year I've been on the B12 oils. My chronic fatigue of one year ago has largely gone. Paired with the above, that suggests methylation has gone up but histamine hasn't gone down. Are both possible?

* Have any other posters had lasting effects from the 3-day fast? I'd like to give it a go: thanks for airing it (& the study) Critterina. (I did quite a few 7, 10 & 12-day fasts 20+ years ago, & headache and malaise were always a part of the first 3 days.)

* Could you kindly explain in lay terms what the fast supposedly does to HI?

 

[Gondwanaland]

headache and malaise were always a part of the first 3 days

I guess one needs elctrolyte replacement esp. magnesium to help with that (I haven't done fasting).

 

[Critterina]

@Johnmac ,

Thanks for all your interesting questions and comments! Let me just say that there are two sources of histamine - histamine that I ingest and histamine my body makes.

Lots of people have trouble with their body making too much histamine. Some people make too much histamine (and other typical "reaction" chemicals - leukotrienes, cytokines, immunoglobulin, cytokinase, etc.) in response to stimuli - think allergy. For them, an antihistamine will often have a noticeable affect. Some people seem to have too much histamine in their blood all or most of the time, which I think is called histadelia. There are body types for histadelia, as well as blood results - and I have neither.

When it comes to diet and histamine, I understand that some foods contain histamine and some foods encourage your body to release histamine (histamine liberators). When I was at my worst, I reacted to any and all foods that contained histamine, even amounts that would be totally acceptable on a low-histamine diet. I reacted to no foods that are histamine liberators. Antihistamines (H1 receptor antagonists) have no effect on whether I develop symptoms. The fact that antihistamines don't help and that I don't react to dietary histamine are consistent in painting the picture of my reacting to dietary histamines. Diamine oxidase (DAO) taken before eating will help with light histamine loads.

That said, there are conflicting lists of which foods have histamines and which don't - it's pretty hard to figure out. I was helped by the results of doing a thorough and strict elimination diet the year before I heard about histamine intolerance. There is an app, Food Intolerance by Bazinga for $5 that is worth every penny and more, if you are sorting through this. I believe it incorporates all the latest research. But I think that some foods may have a histamine liberator rating but not a histamine content rating. You have to look at the text and not just the food color to see that.

The fast (and I don't usually supplement electrolytes, although I don't see why you couldn't) induces a low level of starvation. The body looks around and says "what can I use as an energy source to stay alive?" and finds that it can do without parts of the immune system. I believe that it picks off the unhealthy, overreactive parts of the immune system, but I don't remember where I got that idea, so that I'm starting to wonder if I made that part up. The immune system is suppressed by this, temporarily, but when the fast ends, it comes back in short order and seems to be less reactive.

Where I am now...well, I have a my life back, as in I can work and play and clean house. I'm getting my stamina back, although that is also partly due to hormone replacement and just being able to be more physically active. I do still react to histamines, and I had half a tomato on Sunday and used the DAO enzymes - still not over it, but I so miss tomatoes! I still have hope for the neural reprogramming to help me not react, but I took a break from practicing it after a concussion and just never restarted. I feel that maybe there is another answer out there for me - whether it's H2 receptor antagonist, DAO-specific probiotics, fecal matter transplant, or something else. I'm thinking of writing my doc about the H2s, to see if he would warn me off trying them for some reason, and seeing if they have a sample-size at the dollar store.

I have to get on to my busy life, but I'll try to respond to more of your questions, best I can, later. Good luck sorting it all out!

Crit

 

[frenchmoxie]

@Critterina
Out of curiosity, are you taking anything for your adrenal insufficiency like Cortef?

 

[Critterina]

@frenchmoxie ,
Yes, I take prednisone - a larger dose in the morning and a smaller dose in the afternoon. The total is slightly less than the Merck Manual recommends. Just today I got a prescription for Cortef for emergency use, as trauma can be life-threatening. I am actually in the 'gray area' per my doctor, in terms of diagnosis based on test results. But test results plus symptoms made me ask my doctor for it. If I have no trauma, I'm out some money. If I do have trauma, it might make a difference.

 

[Critterina]

Another 3 months, another fast. Some thoughts on starting the fast with an empty gut. And H2 receptor antagonist experimentation.

After the first one or two fasts, where I had considerable diarrhea and really great relief from histamine intolerance (3 weeks of what seemed like total remission), the other fasts have not had the diarrhea or the great results. My normal peristalsis is really slow - the transit time is greater than 3 days. My gut didn't even clear out in the last fast, and only just at 72 hours in the previous fast. I wonder if empty gut and symptom relief are related. Perhaps if I do liquids for a couple days before the fast, or use an effective laxative (just not that stuff for the colonoscopy, please!) I may get better results. I plan to test this next time.

Researching the types of meds I was prescribed before discovering the common histamine thread, I read that H2 receptor antagonists (common stomach acid reducers) block the histamine receptors in the gut. That got me interested.

I have two theories about how I react to dietary histamines:

(1) leaky gut lets them outside the gut and the immune system says "Hey, what's this? Attack!" Maybe they get to the parts of my body where the symptoms occur - feet, lungs, ears, sinuses, skull.

(2) the histamines bind to the H2 receptors in my gut and start the process of the reaction

Hypothesis: If (2) is true, then blocking those receptors by binding them with H2 receptor antagonists might help me not get symptoms.

I decided to put this to the test. I bought a box of 4 pills of ranitidine at a Dollar Store. Long story short, I haven't been that great a scientist. I had to go get more pills before I got any good data.

You need to take them 30-60 minutes before eating. Like I could be that predictable! Ha! The reason I'm having frozen mac and cheese is the same reason I'm not taking the pill 30 minutes in advance: No time to cook! Let's just say that if you take it within 5-15 minutes of eating, it doesn't help that much.

Sometimes I take one, say before going to a restaurant. Then I get there and successfully order something that doesn't have histamines in it. Oh well, these pills are cheap.

But when I have taken them 30-60 minutes, or even up to 2 hours before I eat something with histamines, (restaurants are closed when you arrive, wait times at open restaurants are 45 minutes or more, and then the kitchen is busy!) it does seem to help. Not once have I got the eczema on my feet or the pressure in my ears when I've done that. And the respiratory symptoms are less than I would expect if I hadn't use it. In fact, it's possible that all the respiratory symptoms could be allergy-related, as in pollen.

I wouldn't make a habit of using them, although some people with heartburn do. These pills block stomach acid, which is produced when food activates these H2 receptors. I had heartburn once, when I was about 5 and ate too much at Christmas dinner. Not since. And I've used hydrochloric acid when I've had protein maldigestion to help combat that problem. Overall, it appears that blocking the H2 receptors regularly wouldn't be a good idea for me.

However, when I can predict when I'm going to eat, when I don't have the control over what is served or how it's prepared, it seems more effective as Diamine Oxidase (DAOsin). Restaurants that really try still fail at about 50%, and friends and family may be well-intentioned but not detail-oriented. For me, I think I've found another tool for my toolkit. I'm confident enough in it that I'll accept that dinner invitation without worrying.

I'd be interested if anyone else with diagnosed histamine intolerance (not self-diagnosed, I mean) has success with H2 receptor antagonists.

Crit

 

[Critterina]

I guess one needs elctrolyte replacement esp. magnesium to help with that (I haven't done fasting).

So, this time I tried Nuun to replace the electrolytes. My fasting stomach was having none of that. It came back up.
I'm sticking with water. I'll put some salt and potassium (lite) salt on my tongue if I get wishing for it, but no more electrolyte replacement drink. Mg glycinate is part of my night time meds.

 

[Critterina]

* In addition to migraine, extreme fatigue, runny nose, diarrhea, etc, when I am apparently histamine-poisoned, I have a pretty dark worldview, a kind of fraught intensity & tension (I feel it through my face & body), can’t face challenging tasks, avoid responsibilities, & people, am not especially rational, & can’t concentrate on anything but pleasurable activities. (About as close to psychosis as I’ve ever got I think: it made me think about the "histapenia" hypothesis.) But now I wonder if this is an entirely new thing, or if a low level of this syndrome has been there throughout my life – contributing to marriages & careers derailing, underachivement, etc.

* Do you or others have symptoms like the above?

From what I understand, there is wide variation in the symptoms associated with histamine intolerance. No reason they symptoms couldn't include a dark worldview. But whether you are reacting to histamines or to other chemicals in the fermented foods would be hard to determine without further tests. You might consider trying non-fermented foods that contain histamine, to see if you get a reaction. Just be prepared for the symptoms (no date night that night, OK?). A spinach salad with tomatoes, bell peppers, cheddar cheese, and commercial dressing - well that would be close to death for me. You might just have a small tomato, or part of one.

I think that for me, there has been some low level of reactivity for decades. My symptoms have varied, but for instance, I've had my tongue bleed when eating tomatoes. I also have had fluctuations in weight of several pounds overnight. The only time my weight is stable day-to-day is when I have a diet with as close to zero histamines as possible.

* I was on the Freddd Protocol for a long time, & for the last year I've been on the B12 oils. My chronic fatigue of one year ago has largely gone. Paired with the above, that suggests methylation has gone up but histamine hasn't gone down. Are both possible?

I don't see how they would be related, so yes, definitely possible.

 

[Johnmac]

Thanks @Critterina.

I have tried eating non-fermented histaminic foods, & they don't appear to harm me at all.

That either means what you said is the case - other amines (?) in the ferments are the main problem - or that I only react to high levels of histamine. I looked up various tables, and yogurt, kefir, kombucha, et al seem to have many times higher histamine content than tomatoes, avocados, etc. Indeed I often wonder why so much attention is paid to the latter when it is the former that cluster together, pretty much alone, at the top of the histamine tables.

Anyway, I'm a bit sick of tests, so shall let the answer become apparent over time.

My experience is that histaminic ferments produce strong psychological symptoms, as well as the physical ones. That's consistent with the Pfeiffer/Walsh ideas about histadelia. I mentioned B12/histamine together because the theory is that as B12 goes up histamine levels go down, when you remethylate.

I can't verify any of the scientific claims - just that fermented foods make me crash very badly after a few days of consumption (not usually straight away), so I have to largely stay away from them.

From what I understand, there is wide variation in the symptoms associated with histamine intolerance. No reason they symptoms couldn't include a dark worldview. But whether you are reacting to histamines or to other chemicals in the fermented foods would be hard to determine without further tests. You might consider trying non-fermented foods that contain histamine, to see if you get a reaction. Just be prepared for the symptoms (no date night that night, OK?). A spinach salad with tomatoes, bell peppers, cheddar cheese, and commercial dressing - well that would be close to death for me. You might just have a small tomato, or part of one.

I think that for me, there has been some low level of reactivity for decades. My symptoms have varied, but for instance, I've had my tongue bleed when eating tomatoes. I also have had fluctuations in weight of several pounds overnight. The only time my weight is stable day-to-day is when I have a diet with as close to zero histamines as possible.



I don't see how they would be related, so yes, definitely possible.

 

[Critterina]

Hi @John Mac

I looked up various tables, and yogurt, kefir, kombucha, et al seem to have many times higher histamine content than tomatoes, avocados, etc. Indeed I often wonder why so much attention is paid to the latter when it is the former that cluster together, pretty much alone, at the top of the histamine tables.

I think the reason that people focus on tomatoes and spinach is that fermented products have a lot of complex compounds in them, and just knowing that you react to them doesn't help you narrow down what you're reacting to. And I guess that's exactly what you're finding out.

At my worst, which was about 3 years, you could slice a tomato for a sandwich, cut one slice in quarters, and with one of the quarters, make me sick for three days.

You mentioned avocados, but as I understand, fresh avocados don't have histamines. The histamines develop as they age, particularly when they have been exposed to air, as in guacamole.

I agree about the psychological symptoms. I always (before I got sick) felt that kombucha gave me a mild, pleasant "buzzed/drunk" sort of feeling that most people might get from a couple of beers.