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Creepy posts by James Coyne to Jeanette Burmeister

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1,446
No one can make up their own minds, Kina, when the linked info on Coynes behaviour and ongoing online behaviour is perpetually dismissed as "dramas" by individuals on this forum.

your attributing wishes to me ("whipping members to a frenzy of hate") are hyperbolic and inflammatory.

It is the case that Coynes bullying and continuing defamation of ME sufferers is of interest and concern. It is equally obvious that Phoenix members remain unaware of the political as well as personal dimensions of Coynes actions until individuals such as myself post them here.

There is nothing in my posts that could be construed as 'Whipping up' anything. I would appreciate you refraining from hyperbolising my statements. PR members have the rightto know what is going on outside of this forum.
 
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1,446
There is no "fight". There is a case of a high profile psychologist bullying and defaming ME sufferers and carers, activists, some with a long established reputation for high quality work.

The apologism for abuse of ME patients and other ME activists by the particular professional, who has a history of abuse, remains a probem. Clearly there is a narrative on this forum that perpetuates the idea that ME sufferers who are defamed by such an individual must be sidelined and dismissed. Fortunately Phoenix Rising is not the totality of communication on the internet. The disparagement (here) of facebook and twitter communications does a great disservice to the many activists and professionals who communicate on those media.
 
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13,774
I have to admit that I've not been that engaged in looking at the details of this, and have tended to see it as distracting 'drama'. But to me it seems that Coyne has behaved much worse than Burmeister, and I don't blame her for wanting to carry on criticising him for it. I really couldn't believe he never apologised.

Saying that, I don't like the implication from some that other patients have a responsibility to look into the details and then speak out about Coyne. We tend not to have a lot of spare time and energy, and there are other things going on at the moment too. There are a whole load of US activists/researchers/issues that I don't know much about, and tend to stay quiet on because I'd rather focus on the areas where I already have some decent understanding of things.

It does bug me when Coyne complains about patient trolls/harassment/whatever considering how he acts. If you don't want others throwing around insults and demands then you shouldn't do it yourself.
 
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Its not expected that everyone should know every detail of Coyne's behaviour. It is the case that a great many UK patients and activists have also been defamed and bullied by coyne ongoing.

What is not constructive is the perpetual dismissal of Coynes behaviour, and dismissal of patient/activist objections to his behaviour, as "dramas" and "fights" or the infantilising term "spats".

What appears to have been forgotten is that the activists whom Coyne turned on at first were exercising their right to critique the involvement of an established psychosocial researcher in US government funded research.
 
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And as has been stated earlier on this thread, Jeanette Burmeister's tweet to the head of the NIH, Francis Collins, which Coyne so objected to, was tame and civilised by comparison with Coyne's subsequent "F...k You" messages to endless ME patients/activists.
 

skipskip30

Senior Member
Messages
237
Fighting fire with fire gets you nowhere. Angry tones, such as yours on here, just wind people up and does nothing for anyone or the cause. Anyone being abused by Coyne should block him and move on, he's not worth the energy.

And insinuating anyone is being 'led' on this forum is deeply insulting. I can make up my own mind, if you don't like my opinion then fine, but its mine, not borrowed from someone else.
 

*GG*

senior member
Messages
6,389
Location
Concord, NH
No one can make up their own minds, Kina, when the linked info on Coynes behaviour and ongoing online behaviour is perpetually dismissed as "dramas" by individuals on this forum.

Wow, seeing His postings is rather disturbing, doesn't seem to know how to fight fair, or dignified. Take your ball and go home, if you don't really want to help advocate!

I think I did hear of this a while back. I have no problem with the spectrum of advocacy, something will pan out!

GG

PS Not a techy here, but was @Kina saying he should block her from her site. Maybe that is not feasible? Would imagine it is easy to do on Twitter, but you know, bad publicity is still publicity. Although, does seem like we are getting into the Media more these days, with fruitful researh from the Private sector! No thanks to the Huge Bureaucracies, they just seem to be money pits :(
 
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@skipskip30 I do not think any of my posts could be construed as "angry". Perhaps you could illustrate what words you perceive as "angry".

No one can make up their own mind if they do not have access to all the information of a case.
 

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,320
Its not expected that everyone should know every detail of Coyne's behaviour. It is the case that a great many UK patients and activists have also been defamed and bullied by coyne ongoing.

What is not constructive is the perpetual dismissal of Coynes behaviour, and dismissal of patient/activist objections to his behaviour, as "dramas" and "fights" or the infantilising term "spats".

What appears to have been forgotten is that the activists whom Coyne turned on at first were exercising their right to critique the involvement of an established psychosocial researcher in US government funded research.

You are having a very polarized view of Coyne. Yes, he does engage in Twitter wars, which is wrong, but in the big picture I think of that as rather insignificant. I know many other scientists and politicians that also fight on Twitter daily, it happens so commonly that it's not even newsworthy any longer. It only takes a simple ban to stop anyone from trolling on your Twitter/blog account.

What I think is much more significant for the CFS/ME community is Coyne's interest in exposing PACE trial and other dubious claims of GET/CBT proponents. Coyne's letter to the tribunal where he stated why it was of scientific interest to have the PACE data released was one part of what helped Alem Matthees to win the trial and have the PACE data released, which we should not forget.
 

*GG*

senior member
Messages
6,389
Location
Concord, NH
Fighting fire with fire gets you nowhere. Angry tones, such as yours on here, just wind people up and does nothing for anyone or the cause.

And insinuating anyone is being 'led' on this forum is deeply insulting. I can make up my own mind, if you don't like my opinion then fine, but its mine, not borrowed from someone else.

Actually, fighting fire with Fire does work, it is done with some regularity. Do some research. I don't see the tone as angry, but perhaps I missed it?

I appreciate for those who are willing to advocate!

GG
 
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I have to admit that can't remember the details of the Wallit concerns now either.

I can see how some peoples seeming disinterest could seem unfair (perhaps my own?.. although I rather doubt the concerns of 'Esther12' matter much to anyone) to those who are personally involved in this, but it is a much more a 'personal' controversy than matters like PACE, treatment guidelines, funding decisions, etc. That could be why some people use words like 'drama', etc?

Coyne doesn't actually have any real power over Burmeister, so this does feel more like a case of someone acting badly on the internet, rather than a real abuse of power. Maybe I am not being as critical of Coyne as I should be? He did have surgery removing that growth from his nose around the time he went wildly lashing out... but that's no excuse for not apologising in the time since then.
 

skipskip30

Senior Member
Messages
237
@skipskip30 I do not think any of my posts could be construed as "angry". Perhaps you could illustrate what words you perceive as "angry".

No one can make up their own mind if they do not have access to all the information of a case.

I talked about an angry tone, which in my opinion is in most of your posts in this thread. But I'm taking my own advice and not engaging with this any further.
 
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1,446
Coyne did not make any Foi about the Pace trial. He was not a signatory to the 42 scientists letter to the Lancet. Coyne has requested that Plos insist that the pace researchers release the data on the Later Pace economic analysis paper which was published in Plos. Plos have not responded to Coyne, perhaps because Coyne has a long history of demanding that Plos should do XY or Z otherwise Coyne will resign. Plos do not take Coyne seriously because of his long history of demands.

It is exactly the issue of some ME patients suggesting that Coyne's abuses of numerous ME patients/activists should be tolerated/accepted as 'collateral damage', acceptable abuses, that has caused such a rift in the ME community.
 
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caledonia

Senior Member
He has the traits of someone with narcissistic personality disorder. Narcs pick out a victim and then abuse them. Others around him may think he's ok, or even a hero for whatever volunteering or charity work he's doing. But the narc doesn't really care about people, he's using his volunteering as a means to get narcissistic supply.

The best thing a victim can do is to cut off contact with the narc completely and permanently. Be aware that the narc will then go searching for a new victim.

My suggestion would be is if he posts anywhere, don't respond. If he's on your Facebook, Twitter or blog, block or ban him. Don't repost anything that he's posted. If everyone ignores him, he won't be able to get narcissistic supply and he will go somewhere else.

There are many helpful videos from former victims on Youtube on how to spot a narcissist, how to deal with them and how to recover from the abuse.
 
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@caledonia that advice may be suitable for individuals dealing with narcissists. But coyne is operating across social and blog media.... his influence is on a whole patient/activist and professional sphere. Individuals have blocked him. But he continues to influence many others. Why should established activists and professionals have to put up with being defamed by him? In addition, certain bods have been incited by Coyne to perpetuate attacks on his victims up to this day. Just blocking Coyne has not stopped it.
 

Snowdrop

Rebel without a biscuit
Messages
2,933
Hello all. I just wanted to say that I think this is an important issue. I don't understand why many pwme allow abusive behaviour to continue.

Hi @batteredoldbook

Important how? To me what's important is moving forward with advocacy (although I'm personally capable of very little).

Maybe drama is an inflammatory word? but why can't we simply ignore Coyne? I'm not completely savvy about how the internet works but can we not block him in a way that he has no power to do anything. Responding seems to just encourage him and makes it therefore counter productive and uses up our small store of energy for what? What do we gain?

The world will never work in perfect harmony. Best to walk away.

Edit: cross posted with Wildcat.
 
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barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
have been incited by Coyne to perpetuate attacks on his victims up to this day. Just blocking Coyne has not stopped it.
I'm' not sure what you mean that others have incited him.

I think it's fair to ask for an apology. Once, maybe twice but more than that will only make him dig in his heels. Then move on. Unfortunately, this is the way the real world works.

It takes two sides to feed a feud. Arguing about what he's done gives him more power than he deserves over us.His behavior is really beyond our control.

Let him do his thing and we can move on to other advocacy issues.

Ruminating about this is not productive nor will it solve this problem. It's energy draining.

The world isn't fair. Deal with it.

Easier said than done, but worth trying this approach.

Edit. Mentioning a domestic abuse case that happened 14 years ago is also creepy.
 
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Nielk

Senior Member
Messages
6,970
This "drama between Coyne and Jeannette" as some have referred to here is much more than that and to refer to it as just an annoying spat is ignoring the huge impact that this has had on the ME community of patients and advocates. This impact has had a continuing effect on a large portion of patients and advocates - so to state that this is a minor event that does not affect every member here so it should not be talked about, is doing a disservice for those that are greatly affected.

Why is it that there is no concern for other PR members who have been affected? Jeannette and many others who have been directly affected by the repeated abuse and bullying by Coyne are members here as well - yet some who have posted here are stating that they do not want to hear or discuss the situation here on PR. If that is the case, then just don't read this thread.

Coyne has a history of abusing women (charged with domestic abuse). He obviously has deep psychological issues and he is preying on a group of very ill patients. And just to make it VERY CLEAR - Jeannette NEVER engaged Coyne. She simply posted a tweet about Walitt and Coyne went off the handle on her and terrorized the ME patient community. He continues to terrorize patients and advocates with a clear agenda of silencing a large part of the community.

I would think that members here - being part of the patient community, would come to the defense of others who have been and are continuing to be bullied. Just look at his posts - he is insane!

This matter is very important to my heart. People from our community that I know, respect and love have been and are continuing to be hurt. because of Coyne's actions, these people have seen a remarked sliding in their health. Does this not concern our community here? We don't care anymore about advocates who have worked for us fo decades like Suzy Chapman (dxrevisionwatch) and others?

I would have thought that the community would come together in support of these advocates - but I guess I was very wrong. I wonder how those who don't want to hear about this would feel if they were the ones who were the object of constant abuse by a deranged bully, making them very sick to the point where they can't continue with their advocacy work - and others would say - I don't want to be bothered hearing about this spat.