Creepy posts by James Coyne to Jeanette Burmeister

[Nielk]

No Nielk, no one is mocking people's pain. It's about the overreaction and inappropriate reaction, to the issue.

No - it is about people belittling other's experiences.

As ME patients, we are used to these type of reactions from people - belittling our experiences and feeling.

"you can't be that sick for so long - you must be faking it"
"I'm tired too, yet I can push through - I'm sure if you tried you can too"

Regardless of the fact whether you or others here "believe" that this was/is an inconsequential event. Those who have been personally involved say that this has and is presently adversely affecting them. By your and other members here statements that - this is not important, it is ridiculous, we have much more important things to do (although I'm not sure who is handcuffing anyone to this thread) is belittling people's personal experiences. Whether someone else would feel the same way if they were in their shoes does not matter at all.

When I state here that ME advocates' health has been affected by this and that some feel demoralized, do you think it's appropriate to say "that's ridiculous"?

 

[barbc56]

@Nielk
In the great scheme of things, yes, this thread has indeed become ridiculous.

This is not a situation such as a child who is being bullied or a woman being labled as "asking for it" when physically or mentally abused. It's not even close nor comparable to the type of abuse patients with mecfs have experienced. It's a stupid spat on the internet. It's personal and not against our community.

As far as some of the other "victims", they are a small minority of patients who have a history of being quite rude when making a point and using ad hominem attacks when trying to get a point across.

No one is denying that this was stressful for Jeanette nor that it was affecting her health. No one is denying she has done some things for our community that have been positive. No one is saying JC is a saint.

But I do have to ask. If this has affected her health, why did she risk further physical repercussions and write this latest blog adding even more contenscious statements? She resorted to playing both the sick and victim cards.

If she wants to announce why she hasn't been writing and will retire, a short statement in an adult fashion stating this fact would have been sufficient.

I thought lawyers were supposed to have a thick skin.

Edit. I am having difficulties finding the info on Twitter, so for the time being, I have changed the above to reflect this.

 

[Wildcat]

.
The activists who Coyne first attempted to silence have years, some nearly 2 decades, experience and are not thin skinned.... none of them have a history of whingeing about the heavy duty brickbats that have been sent their way over the (very many) years.... so why portray them as ultra sensitive types who just cant get over things?

As I clearly stated early in this thread, Coyne, in February, first attacked the activists who critiqued the involvement of psychosocial researchers in an important NIH study. He then threw his weight on those who refused to agree with his view that the psychosocial researchers involvement in the study was ok.... then he lashed out indiscriminately against patients who didn't even know why he was ranting and swearingvat them.


Its amazing that such seasoned accomplished activists are being portrayed as crybabies, whingers, and moaners on this thread.

Its been so noticeable over the years, decades even, that those who are the first to warn where the ME community is being lead up the garden path by individuals and orgs who the majority believe will help us... the early warners, those who point out the pitfalls, are argued with and sidelined by the hopeful majority The voices warning about the uk mrc collaborative, for example (including dxrevisionwatch and myself) were in such a minority, for years.

In this instance those who warned about the NIH involving psychosocial researchers in an important study were the 'early warners'.

In addition, if Coyne's behaviour is so trivial, and irrelevant to the majority, why have so many posted so much to insist that? Is it necessary to post again and again to trivialise Coyne's actions (which were political), and to repeatedly say that Coyne's targets should just be quiet?

.edit addition...... do ME sufferers/activists still believe that Coyne is really helping us? Does Coynes prominent promotion of Edward Shorter really not ring loud alarm bells?

.

 

[flybro]

WOW, really looking after your own! Shame we can't be as supportive as the psych lobby are of each other.

 

[Nielk]

As far as some of the other "victims", they are a small minority of patients who have a history of being quite rude when making a point and using ad hominem attacks when trying to get a point across. Some, and I want to emphasize that for both statements, are also harassing Ron Davis's wife. We know who they are and I dont want to mention names so this may be an unfair statement. If the mods want me to delete this I will.

I think that you are confusing who was involved with what.

The "people involved" had nothing to do with harassing Ron Davis's wife. Personal harassment is never okay and should never be condoned.

 

[barbc56]

The activists who Coyne first attempted to silence have years, some well over a decade, experience and are not thin skinned.... none of them have a history of whingeing about the heavy duty brickbats that have been sent their way over the (very many) years.... so why portray them as ultra sensitive types who just cant get over things?

I'm not saying that. I'm saying there are a few advocates who have a history of being incredibly rude and contenscious. As for Jeanette, I'm not sure, except in this case if this applies to her.

I also don't knee jerk support our group just for the sake of being supportive. I go by the issues. To me that's the definition of support.

Now, I really need to step away from this conversation.

 

[Nielk]

I thought lawyers were supposed to have a thick skin.

Jeannette is one of the most courageous people I know.

So you are saying because she is a lawyer, it's okay for others to abuse her and she should just take the abuse quietly? Why? Because you are uncomfortable to hear about it?

 

[Wildcat]

. @barbc56
Naming names...The most targetted victims of Coyne's aggression, attempted silencing and defamation, were dxrevisionwatch (Suzy Chapman), Jeanette Burmeister, Angela Kennedy, me, Jay Spero, James David Chapman, Maryann Spurgin, ... none of whom have harassed Ron Davis's wife!

.If I have left anyone out please remind me.... Its clear that Coyne does not waste his time attacking compliant 'yes' people !

I understand that a number of people also received offensive, expletive filled pm messages from Coyne too.

.
.

 

[Wildcat]

.
It should be of great concern to all sick and disabled people worldwide that Coyne rashly undermined dxrevisionwatch and her work, back in November..... by vocally and publicly blocking her on Twitter (a media on which a great many mental health professionals follow dxrevisionwatch's important work on reporting on DSMV developments. The tweets redirect to her blog on DSMV developments).

Coynes blocking of dxrevisionwatch was due to his rash and over hasty misreading of one of her tweets, which he wrongly read as referring to him. In fact the tweet had nothing to do with Coyne.


dxrevisionwatch has provided a great service by reporting on the developments of the DSMV, developments which affect all sick and disabled people. Her blog and tweets are read predominantly by psychology and psychiatry, mental health professionals, as well as by disability activists worldwide.

What Coyne did by publicly turning on dxrevisionwatch was to undermine her excellent reputation for accurate reporting, and encourage disparagement by those hostile to her previous ME campaigning work... notably Michael Sharpe, who was delighted and gleeful at Coyne's public blocking of and hostility to dxrevisionwatch; then some other psychology professionals, ME psychologisers, were then emboldened to disparage dxrevisionwatch publicly.

The DSMV potentially affects us all.

Exactly why Coyne's undermining of dxrevisionwatch's painstaking work of years should be so dismissed and trivialised by people on this forum is a mystery.

edit .... dxrevisionwatch blog also reports on the ICD11 developments, which also could affect us all

.


.

 

[Esther12]

.
What Coyne did by publicly turning on dxrevisionwatch was to undermine her excellent reputation for accurate reporting, and encourage disparagement by those hostile to her previous ME campaigning work... notably Michael Sharpe, who was delighted and gleeful at Coyne's public blocking of and hostility to dxrevisionwatch; then some other psychology professionals, ME psychologisers, were then emboldened to disparage dxrevisionwatch publicly.

Wasn't that the time he did actually apologies? It was a bad thing for him to have done, but you'd need to be pretty stupid to think less of Suzy because Coyne misread one of her tweets.

Just skimming through this thread, it does seem that people are ending increasingly polarised by the discussion. I don't really know why that is, but it is interesting to see.

 

[Wildcat]

.
Coyne left his tweet online to be read thereafter.

The people, including mental health professionals and academics who read Coynes public blocking of dxrevisionwatch did not Know that Coyne had misread her tweet.... and his behaviour encouraged others to disparage and undermine her.


It is indeed interesting... the extent to which some seem intent on trivialising the full extent and damage of Coyne's actions.
.

 

[TiredSam]

Just skimming through this thread, it does seem that people are ending increasingly polarised by the discussion. I don't really know why that is, but it is interesting to see.

Well if it's any consolation I think both sides have made some good points which have helped me appreciate that things aren't as black and white as they first seemed to me. And we have made it to 250 posts without a complete melt-down, which is probably better than anyone expected when this thread started.

 

[barbc56]

I think that you are confusing who was involved with what

You may be right. I cant find the information that I based my statement and/or misremembered, so have edited the post to reflect this.

Apologies for any confusio

 

[lansbergen]

but you'd need to be pretty stupid to think less of Suzy because Coyne misread one of her tweets.

Yep

 

[snowathlete]

Regardless of the fact whether you or others here "believe" that this was/is an inconsequential event. Those who have been personally involved say that this has and is presently adversely affecting them. By your and other members here statements that - this is not important, it is ridiculous, we have much more important things to do (although I'm not sure who is handcuffing anyone to this thread) is belittling people's personal experiences.

I didn't say it was an inconsequential event. My issue is with people partaking in this feud blaming other ME patients for not taking part as well.

Whether someone else would feel the same way if they were in their shoes does not matter at all.

As I said, I have been personally threatened by Coyne myself. So I've been in those shoes. I just didn't let my response to that get ridiculous.

When I state here that ME advocates' health has been affected by this and that some feel demoralized, do you think it's appropriate to say "that's ridiculous"?

People can read my comment about what was ridiculous for themselves and see that I was very clearly not referencing people feeling ill.

 

[snowathlete]

. @barbc56
Naming names...The most targetted victims of Coyne's aggression, attempted silencing and defamation, were dxrevisionwatch (Suzy Chapman), Jeanette Burmeister, Angela Kennedy, me, Jay Spero, James David Chapman, Maryann Spurgin, ... none of whom have harassed Ron Davis's wife!

.If I have left anyone out please remind me.... Its clear that Coyne does not waste his time attacking compliant 'yes' people !

I understand that a number of people also received offensive, expletive filled pm messages from Coyne too.
.
.

I didn't see all the attacks on the above, but I did see some of them, and some attacks on others too, and as I've said - and lots of others have too - it was outrageous. I saw some private attacks that were even worse on some people, than the stuff seen in public. I think 99% of the community, maybe more, agree Coyne was outrageous, unacceptable.

But it's not what happened back in February, but what is happening now, with some of these people, and others, keeping the feud going. I'm not interested in doing that, but that's up to them if they want to. What I think is ridiculous is that some people taking part in this feud are critical of others in the community for not wanting to get involved, and that involves people like me. I guess that's the point, but maybe people are getting involved, responding in ways that are different to how people hoped.

I'm one of those people who got private messages, btw.

 

[Dx Revision Watch]

Formal complaint to universities about Professor James Coyne’s behaviour

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-dO09aE_udepfP3prbpaU5o_5ui5wtBk/view

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yoldofwvu1horsy/Formal%20complaint%20about%20Professor%20James%20Coyne’s%20behaviour.pdf

Signed by

Professor Richard Bentall, Professor of Clinical Psychology, University of Sheffield.
Dr Jacqui Dillon, Chair, Hearing Voices Network England.
Dr Alec Grant, Independent Scholar in Narrative Mental Health.
Dr Lucy Johnstone, Consultant Clinical Psychologist.
Professor Peter Kinderman, Professor of Clinical Psychology, University of Liverpool.
Dr David Pilgrim, Visiting Professor of Clinical Psychology University of Southampton.
Dr John Read, Professor of Clinical Psychology, University of East London.
Dr Akima Thomas, Clinical Director of Women and Girls Network and West London Rape
Crisis Centre.
Jo Watson, UKCP Registered Psychotherapist.

 

[Hip]

@Dx Revision Watch, in the letter you linked to above, do we know if these psychologists and psychiatrists that are complaining about Professor Coyne's social media name-calling are linked to the biopsychosocial shrinks who turned ME/CFS into an "all in the mind" condition that lots of doctors and researchers now as a result dismiss?

 

[Dx Revision Watch]

@Dx Revision Watch, in the letter you linked to above, do we know if these psychologists and psychiatrists that are complaining about Professor Coyne's social media name-calling are linked to the biopsychosocial shrinks who turned ME/CFS into an "all in the mind" condition that lots of doctors and researchers now as a result dismiss?

None of the above are psychiatrists but I don't think the question is relevant.

https://thoughtsaboutme.com/2016/02/29/has-the-coyne-of-the-realm-been-devalued/#comment-23886

 

[Hip]

None of the above are psychiatrists but I don't think the question is relevant.

Well I think it is very relevant, because those biopsychosocially-inclined psychiatrists and psychologists who turned ME/CFS into an "all in the mind" condition are one of the most morally reprehensible groups on the planet, and they deserve a custodial sentence for their actions, not merely Professor James Coyne is giving them a hard time by calling them names on social media.