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Coyne: taking Wessely's manipulative ways out of the shadows..........

Countrygirl

Senior Member
Messages
5,468
Location
UK
https://jcoynester.wordpress.com/20...n-on-handing-over-the-plos-one-data-to-coyne/

Simon Wessely: Why PACE investigators aren’t keen on handing over the PLOS One data to Coyne
December 20, 2016James C Coyne clinical trials, conflict of interest, data sharing, Freedom of Information, PACE, PLOS One, post-publication peer review, psychotherapy, questionable publication practices, trial registration Anna Wood, journalism, Psychological Medicien, Robim Murray, Simon Wessely
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In what has become his characteristic style, Simon Wessely smears me with innuendo, suggesting I might try to alter the PLOS One PACE data and use the altered data to damage the careers of the investigators. He further argues that any release of the data could hurt the careers of the investigators and he understands their resistance. I say “Nonsense! I should be provided with the data as the investigators promised in publishing in PLOS One.”



Simon Wessely discreetly stays in the shadows, but he’s been very much involved in the struggle over the PACE trial, including whether the data will be released to me. I first learned from Wessely, not PLOS One, that my asking for data promised as a condition for publishing in the journal had somehow been turned into a Freedom of Information Act request.

But before that, Simon and I were in regular contact by direct messages on Twitter. I gave a talk at King’s College on biomarkers in June 2015. Simon and I later discussed getting a drink together because he was not able to be there. Simon established that he’s a wine guy, not one for scotch or beer.

When I first started tweeting about the PACE study months later, Simon contacted me, asking me not to comment on this study until I had spent months familiarizing myself with it. When that strategy didn’t work, he asked me to tone down my criticism of the PACE study. He even suggested that the PACE investigators would meet me in a public debate that Andre Tomlin of Mental Elf was trying to set up. But Andre later confirmed that the PACE investigators had already indicated there was no way that they would debate me.

Simon has continued to work behind the scenes, conveying vague threats to early investigators who criticize PACE in print. Simon’s nudges have been followed up by further threats from the PACE investigators to the universities of these early investigators.

Journalists have also been contacted by Simon who discouraged them in emails marked confidential from commenting on PACE. Tacky and manipulative because Simon’s emails came out of the blue, and Simon was suggesting that the journalists should not tell anyone about them.

Journal editors have been contacted by PACE investigators with efforts to suppress publication of criticism.

Critics have asked Psychological Medicine to publish a letter to the editor reporting the switched scoring of PACE outcomes that had substantially inflated the recovery rates reported in that journal in 2013. The editor, Robin Murray – a close colleague of Simon’s at King’s College, London – rejected the possibility of any letter based only on re-analyses. Rather, any correction would have to be based on an independent replication of the £5 million study in another sample.

Something is rotten in the UK, not just the State of Denmark.
 

Daisymay

Senior Member
Messages
754
I find Wessely's email to be pretty incoherent.

And now he is claiming someone is falsifying his power points. I wonder if that will turn out to be like the death threats, to have no basis in reality?

And so it appears that he's not only using his power to manipulate the media against PWME via the SMC but directly petitioning journalists and editors.

Hmm........
 

Countrygirl

Senior Member
Messages
5,468
Location
UK
I find Wessely's email to be pretty incoherent.

And now he is claiming someone is falsifying his power points. I wonder if that will turn out to be like the death threats, to have no basis in reality?

And so it appears that he's not only using his power to manipulate the media against PWME via the SMC but directly petitioning journalists and editors.

Hmm........

Brain fog and paranoia. Is there a psychiatrist in the house? :rolleyes:
 

Esther12

Senior Member
Messages
13,774
And now he is claiming someone is falsifying his power points. I wonder if that will turn out to be like the death threats, to have no basis in reality?

Someone had done a comedy photoshop of one of his photos, giving him a big cigar, reclining in plumes of smoke. Wessely acted like it was a deliberate attempt to mislead people. Maybe he just does not get the sort of sense of humour that's common on the internet?

I think that his views of patient activism are genuinely detached from reality, but also, he has an incentive to misrepresent them. It's hard to know when he's being manipulative, when he's just wrong, and when he has access to information that we do not.
 
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Daisymay

Senior Member
Messages
754
Someone had done a comedy photoshop of one of his photos, giving him a big cigar, reclining in plumes of smoke. Wessely acted like it was a deliberate attempt to mislead people. Maybe he just does not get the sort sense of humour that's common on the internet?

I think that his views of patient activism are genuinely detached from reality, but also, he has an incentive to misrepresent them. It's had to know when he's being manipulative, when he's just wrong, and when he has access to information that we do not.

True, though I do tend towards thinking that manipulation figures highly!
 

Demepivo

Dolores Abernathy
Messages
411
Someone had done a comedy photoshop of one of his photos, giving him a big cigar, reclining in plumes of smoke. Wessely acted like it was a deliberate attempt to mislead people. Maybe he just does not get the sort sense of humour that's common on the internet?.

Imperial Lord Wessely is used to being deferred to and got used to it. Suspect beneath all the bluster & self importance, the poor chap is rather insecure.

(Don't mention the scary clown hair whatever you do!)
 
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Messages
1,446
.
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As Coyne has also proved to have been an abuser of ME patients/carers/activists ..... its a bit rich that he has claimed to have taken on Wessely on 'our' behalf.


As one of the individuals who was personally, aggressively, abused by Coyne earlier this year
(extensive, aggressive, 'Fuck you, do what I say or else I will carry on telling you to 'Fuck Yourself' .... private messages, late at night, to a severely sick housebound female who lives alone)

.... part of Coyne's attempt to stop me (and even more vocal others) from Criticising the involvement of the psychosocial researcher Walitt in an important NIH Study

.... I am not impressed by Coyne's 'Late In The Day' challenges to Wessely.


If Coyne really had the ME Community's interests at heart, he would not have so aggressively attacked, and attempted to silence, so many patient/carer/activists in such a very aggressive and public (and private) manner.... specifically the patient/activists who were critiquing another ME psychosomatiser researcher (Brian Walitt), and Walitt's involvement in NIH funded ME research.


Not Impressed with Coyne's 'Late In The Day' posturing.... Lets see Coyne Publicly critisising Brian Walitt, and retracting Coynes own public promotion of ME denialist and ME psychosomatiser Edward Shorter!


If Coyne truly opposes Wessely, then why did Coyne give the ME denier and Wessely ally Edward Shorter such a public platform and promotion on his (Coyne's) Blog??

Uh??

.
.
.
.
 
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A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
I find Wessely's email to be pretty incoherent.

First it was death threats, and Wessely feeling safer in a war zone in Afghanistan than at home in England.

Then it were an organized campaign of harassment against researchers, using FOI requests.

Then it was young men, borderline sociopath and psychopath, seeking to harass PACE trial participants, using PACE data.

Now "there are people out there who have downloaded my powerpoints, changed them (guess how) and then circulated false versions to make me look like an ogre"

It seems the scariness of the unreasonable activists diminishes every time the tale is told.

But no matter, the data can't be released because who knows what that powerpoint alterator might do with it :nervous:
 

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
What is Simon saying now? What is this incoherent statement?
So I think it will happen. Its not been made easier by someone develop an illness I am afraid, which is certainly stress related (when KCL said that they were concerned about the health of their eployees they were spot on). But it will take time. And here I do agree with you – the sooner it taken away from the PACE team the better for everyone.

Is he saying that he was concerned about some employees becoming ill due to stress? Should we pity them? OK, poor employees.o_O:bang-head:
 
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Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK
Not Impressed with Coyne's 'Late In The Day' posturing.... Lets see Coyne Publicly critisising Brian Walitt, and retracting Coynes own public promotion of ME denialist and ME psychosomatiser Edward Shorter!

If Coyne truly opposes Wessely, then why did Coyne give the ME denier and Wessely ally Edward Shorter such a public platform and promotion on his (Coyne's) Blog?


Why indeed? And when challenged, why did he attempt to stifle discussion about his motivations?
And why did he seek to scapegoat patients for his decision to promote Shorter, Shorter's books and Shorter's blog?
 

TiredSam

The wise nematode hibernates
Messages
2,677
Location
Germany
If Coyne truly opposes Wessely, then why did Coyne give the ME denier and Wessely ally Edward Shorter such a public platform and promotion on his (Coyne's) Blog??
Because Wessely is UK, and Shorter is US. Coyne is all for criticising the horrendous psych situation in the UK, but criticism of anything similar in the US is off limits as far as he is concerned.

Whatever. Watching two bullies (Coyne and Wessely) getting into a spat is always fun.
 

Barry53

Senior Member
Messages
2,391
Location
UK
What am I missing? I thought the PACE data was already released. Or did they only release some of it?
 

Esther12

Senior Member
Messages
13,774
I assumed the Wessely e-mail was old - from before the tribunal.

What is this incoherent statement?

So I think it will happen. Its not been made easier by someone develop an illness I am afraid, which is certainly stress related (when KCL said that they were concerned about the health of their eployees they were spot on). But it will take time. And here I do agree with you – the sooner it taken away from the PACE team the better for everyone.

Is he saying that he was concerned about some employees becoming ill due to stress? Should we pity them? OK, poor employees.o_O:bang-head:

Sounds like he's saying stress related ill-health from one of the PACE team is making it harder for them to deal with data access. Pretty weak to use that as a reason to get in the way of unspinning of data for treatment that could affect the lives of millions around the world.
 

Large Donner

Senior Member
Messages
866
I assumed the Wessely e-mail was old - from before the tribunal.



Sounds like he's saying stress related ill-health from one of the PACE team is making it harder for them to deal with data access. Pretty weak to use that as a reason to get in the way of unspinning of data for treatment that could affect the lives of millions around the world.

Unless they are suffering from anxiety fraud based data release panic disorders. Then they need help with a good course of CBT. Perhaps a good judge could put them on a course.
 

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
Sounds like he's saying stress related ill-health from one of the PACE team is making it harder for them to deal with data access.
Good. (If it's even true.)
Pretty weak to use that as a reason to get in the way of unspinning of data for treatment that could affect the lives of millions around the world.
Agree.

Unless they are suffering from anxiety fraud based data release panic disorders. Then they need help with a good course of CBT. Perhaps a good judge could put them on a course.
Make that "false anxiety fraud-based data release panic disorder beliefs. Break out the CBT manuals!
 

Esther12

Senior Member
Messages
13,774
It really does seem odd how some campaigners for open science, concerned about spun results etc, are failing to speak out about the PACE trial. It would not surprise me if private pressure (cowardice) was playing a role in this.
 

SilverbladeTE

Senior Member
Messages
3,043
Location
Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
First it was death threats, and Wessely feeling safer in a war zone in Afghanistan than at home in England.

Then it were an organized campaign of harassment against researchers, using FOI requests.

Then it was young men, borderline sociopath and psychopath, seeking to harass PACE trial participants, using PACE data.

Now "there are people out there who have downloaded my powerpoints, changed them (guess how) and then circulated false versions to make me look like an ogre"

It seems the scariness of the unreasonable activists diminishes every time the tale is told.

But no matter, the data can't be released because who knows what that powerpoint alterator might do with it :nervous:

wee bit of "projection" there, me thinks, from old Weasel Dick! :p
 

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK
Because Wessely is UK, and Shorter is US. Coyne is all for criticising the horrendous psych situation in the UK, but criticism of anything similar in the US is off limits as far as he is concerned...

Yes, it's evident that he's happy to pursue (and in some instances, bait) White, Wessely, Sharpe (UK) and Fink et al (Denmark); he also has an ongoing public thing against selected British Psychological Society folk, like its current President, Prof Peter Kinderman, and Dr Lucy Johnstone.

Yet he defends Walitt and promotes Shorter and he chops off the heads of those who challenge him about this*.

He even manages to gloss over the fact that Prof Joel E Dimsdale (whom he quotes in a recent blog post) signed off on the SSD construct and criteria. It wasn't just the DSM-5 Task Force who refused to consider Allen Frances' suggestions for redrafting the SSD criteria - Dimsdale was not receptive, either.

A very curious MO.

*And he continues to find ways to "punish" advocates for having challenged him. In my case, by quoting my text in his blog but repeatedly refusing to attribute that text to its author.
 
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