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Could this be an early XMRV? The JHK virus

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by currer, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. currer

    currer Senior Member

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  2. LaurieM

    LaurieM

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    Currer, thanks for posting.

    I'm not at all clued up on Cell Lines - are they man-made or naturally occurring?

    What I am reading from this is that the JHK retrovirus and EBV virus are constantly being produced by this cell line as your second link from 1997 shows. As it now looks like JHK is an XMRV related retrovirus, could this be the link as to why so many of us got ME after Glandular Fever (EBV) and is this the still to be resolved connection to XMRV?

    Is it possible that we got EBV and XMRV (JHK) at the same time?

    Laurence
  3. Ana

    Ana *****

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  4. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    Hi,
    I must praise the other forum here for their scientific enthusiasm and research and detection online, but it would be a shame if we stopped discussing these topics over here.

    I think they are quite right in the conclusions they have drawn from the papers they have discovered.

    The most important point about JHK is that it originates from a blood draw in 1989/90, so the retrovirus easily predates the supposed "creation" of XMRV in Paprotka et al. (1996.)

    This new entry of a further variant of XMRV in genebank on the 1st August shows that the attempt to limit HGRVs to one variant XMRV, and then eliminate the possibility that this can be the cause of ME by creating a false hypothetical "origin" cannot maintain credibility among those who understand the science.

    It strengthens the claims of those, like Alter, who say they find many different variants of MLVs in blood from ME sufferers. It shows there is a family of different variants of HGRVs in the population.

    Remember that Ruscetti found XMRV in Alters blood samples, where Alter could only isolate PMLVs. (another paper which could not get published)

    I doubt that the false hypothesis of the "origin" of XMRV will cease though, because of the political need for an Official Theory.
    We will see Paprotka referred to in glowing uncritical terms in future.

    It increasingly looks to me as if retroviruses have been found and discounted in ME several times. The necessary funding is withdrawn and promising research never followed up. Research is only to be directed into symptoms not causes. Why? because of the embarrassment (to put it mildly) of another retroviral disease in the population. How did it get there?

    In this undertaking the interests of pharmaceutical companies, virologists and government health agencies seem to work in alliance. What about the public health threat? Dont our governmments have any concern for that?
  5. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    Hi Laurie,

    Cell lines are man made. The JHK cell line was created in 1997 (or earlier?) to investigate EBV and virus/retrovirus interactions.
    Since it originated from the blood of an ME sufferer I find it hard to believe that it was not known that there was a retrovirus involved in ME.

    I dont think that EBV is necessary for an infection with XMRV. I think it may be a common co-pathogen.

    The discussion on pseudotyping is fascinating though. If retroviruses can infect viruses, borrow their cell membranes, and spread successfully protected by the coat of another virus, we could have a reason why ME takes epidemic patterns from time to time.

    As Redruth pointed out, retroviral coats are weak and easily destroyed, so they cannot spread through the air.
    But they could pseudotyped as EBV or HHV6, carrying a retroviral genome inside.
  6. Bob

    Bob

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    Thanks for all the info currer. I don't understand it all yet, but I'm reading up on it... slowly.
  7. Bob

    Bob

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  8. Bob

    Bob

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  9. Bob

    Bob

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    This is what the CAA website has to say about JHK:

    Retroviruses

    Retroviruses are known to cause uncommon neurological disorders that have a relapsing and remitting pattern similar to CFS. In 1991, a team of researchers led by Dr. Elaine DeFreitas published evidence suggesting that a human T lymphocytic virus type II (HTVL-II)-like retrovirus was present in the lymphocytes of CFS patients and might be the cause of their symptoms.11 Other preliminary evidence of possible retroviral involvement in CFS has been published. Dr. W. John Martin of California reported an association of CFS with a "stealth virus." 12 Dr. Sidney Grossberg of Wisconsin discovered a new virus, called the "JHK" virus, in a CFS patient. Subsequent study by other laboratories failed to reproduce any of these results.13, 14, 15

    http://www.cfids.org/about-cfids/viruses.asp?


    Here's some info in an article by Cort, written in 2010:

    Dr. Sidney Grossberg - An accomplished researcher who had done a stint at the renowned Pasteur Institute in France under the discoverer of the HIV virus, Dr. Luc Montagnier, Dr. Grossberg jumped into the fray in the first quarter of 1992 with a report hed isolated a novel retrovirus from the blood of a CFS patient. Happy to have such a renowned figure involved the CFIDS Association expedited funding for him. Dr. Grossberg went onto to get two grants from the NAIAD, becoming apparently the only researcher to receive federal funding from the NIH to specifically look for a retrovirus in the disease. Interestingly, Dr. Grossberg, too, was unclear whether hed found an endogenous or exogenous retrovirus and like Dr. DeFreitas his virus appeared not to fit in any viral family.

    Three years later in 1995 Dr. Grossberg still not published a paper on his virus. In 1998 he published a paper examining the characteristics of a novel retrovirus called JHK but no mention of CFS was made. The CFIDS Association would still be supporting him in 1998 and then again in 2001 but as of 2010, Dr. Grossberg has never published any papers on retroviruses in chronic fatigue syndrome.

    His website indicates that the JHK virus and its potential link to leukemia, lymphoma, chronic fatigue syndrome and other immuno-dysfunctional states is still of major interest to him and it refers to four current projects. Dr. Grossberg, has not, however, published a paper on the virus for over 10 years.

    Dr. Grossbergs connection to ME/CFS may not, however, end there. In 2003 he co-authored a study announcing the presence of a xenotropic murine leukemia retrovirus in a human B-lymphoblastoid cell line. (XMRV is a a xentropic murine leukemia related virus) Interestingly, Dr. Grossbergs JHK virus first discovered in chronic fatigue syndrome -with was also produced by a B-lymphoblastoid cell line.

    http://phoenixrising.me/?p=1232


    And from the NATIONAL CFIDS FOUNDATION website:

    Is XMRV related to the JHK retrovirus found in CFS patients and discovered by Sidney Grossberg, M.D.?

    According to Dr. Grossberg's website, "the JHK virus is an enveloped, relatively fragile particle containing RNA, reverse transcriptase, and prominent, knobbed glycoprotein projections. Although the JHK virus resembles a retrovirus (but 35% smaller than most other retroviruses), it is clearly not like any of the known human retroviruses as determined either by polymerase chain reactions or electron microscopy. The JHK-3 B-lymphoblastoid cell line that constitutively produces the JHK virus (and the Epstein-Barr virus as well) has the antigenic markers of immature B-lymphocytes by flow cytometry. cDNA libraries produced by reverse transcription of JHK viral RNA have been constructed and are being analyzed; the sequences determined of the many clones produced have so far revealed no significant homology with known viruses. The possible etiological role of the JHK virus in diseases that may involve B-lymphocytes, such as leukemia, lymphoma, chronic fatigue syndrome or immuno-dysfunctional states, remains to be determined [8,9,10]." It would appear that the JHK virus differs from XMRV judging by Grossberg's information.

    http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/2010winter2.htm
  10. Bob

    Bob

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    This JHK info led me off in all sorts of search directions on google, until my head almost expoded! There's so much research info out there on retroviruses!

    "The JHK virus exhibits a distinctive morphogenesis, most nearly resembling C-type retroviruses."

    I did a search for "C-type retroviruses", and it threw up all sorts of interesting research...
    And it seems that murine retroviruses were detected in human cell lines long ago.
    I came across these papers from 1980 & 1983 which detected C-type murine retroviruses in human cell lines:

    Detection and isolation of type C retrovirus particles from fresh and cultured lymphocytes of a patient with cutaneous T-cell lymphoma. 1980
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6261256

    Murine type C retroviruses and intracisternal A-particles in human tumors serially passaged in nude mice. 1983
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6310201


    And just out of interest:

    Other C-types retroviruses:
    MLV's
    Friend Virus
    spleen focus forming virus
    gibbon ape leukemia virus
    Moloney Murine Leukemia Virus​
  11. Bob

    Bob

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    While searching, I also came across this paper, which isn't directly related to this thread's subject matter, but it's very interesting anyway, so thought I'd post it here:

    Detection and immunochemical characterization of a primate type C retrovirus-related p30 protein in normal human placentas
    http://www.jstor.org/pss/24907
  12. Bob

    Bob

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    So it seems that JHK is one of a few retroviruses that has been associated with CFS over the years.
    I wonder why I'd never heard of it until this week.
  13. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

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    :rolleyes:
    Gibbon Ape Leukemia Virus apparently resembles XMRV and there's a researcher with grants from the NIH researching both viruses.

    There's also Mouse mammary tumor virus. This is a retrovirus some researchers have found in human breast cancer. Of course their findings are highly controversial :(
    It has been proven though that the virus can infect human tissue:
    http://www.retrovirology.com/content/4/1/73

    I have the feeling HTLV and HIV are not the only retroviruses out there infecting people and causing disease...

    I think retrovirus research started booming around the early 70's? With the first human retrovirus found in 1979 (HTLV) and the second in 1983 (HIV). So that's not too long ago and I guess there's still much terrain to cover.

    Like you Bob, I am wondering why there is so much research about retroviruses and why some new retroviruses have been associated with human disease, yet we never hear about it? Unless you really start digging. I have the feeling research into this subject is either very difficult (technology not senstive enough, difficult to prove things, etc) or too controversial somehow.
  14. Bob

    Bob

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    I think that the WPI have opened up a massive can of worms. And I don't think anyone is going to be able to close the lid again.

    I think that we might see a number of retroviruses linked with various human diseases.

    Maybe we are just at the point in history where the technology is good enough to accurately and reliably pinpoint some of these retroviruses.


    And I think the CDC found this virus when they looked at Elaine Defreitas's samples.

    ETA: Correction - please see the next few posts.

    Apparently Hillary Johnson has said that the CDC contaminated Elaine DeFreitas's samples with GaLV.
    I don't know any more than that.
    So it might be wrong to say that the CDC detected GaLV in DeFreitas's samples.

    The interesting connection is that XMRV is said to resemble GaLV​
  15. Sam Carter

    Sam Carter Guest

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    Are you sure about this, Bob? My understanding is that DeFreitas described a non-C-type retrovirus whereas GaLV, like XMRV, is a C-type retrovirus.

    ETA: according to this paper
    [*] the CDC did look for GaLV in CFS patients and were unable to find it.

    [*] Clin Infect Dis. 1994 Jan;18 Suppl 1:S121-5.
    Lack of evidence for infection with known human and animal retroviruses in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome.
    Heneine W, Woods TC, Sinha SD, Khan AS, Chapman LE, Schonberger LB, Folks TM.
  16. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    I think finding retroviruses in humans is too controversial and that is why little research has been done since the 80s or 90s.

    There is the little problem of explaining how they got there. When did you last meet a macaque?

    http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/short/65/11/5663

    Type D retroviruses are the simian immunodeficiency retroviruses.
  17. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    I think some of the earlier work, which was good virology, nevertheless was unable to sequence the virus found because the technology was not advanced enough.

    It is much easier to pinpoint the origin of a virus now - after all genetic fingerprinting will get you convicted in a court case.
  18. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    This paper by Robin Weiss is interesting. It discusses his discovery of a rabbit retrovirus, which he later decided to be contamination.
    http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/full/76/14/7094
    There are still some puzzles in the research, though, which he discusses. Weiss generally promotes the concept that all retroviral discoveries are mistakes. I remember he came to an early XMRV conference last year and dismayed those present by his forcible talk on the dangers of contamination in XMRV research.
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/content.php?248-xmrv-at-in-the-balance-A-Tale-of-Two-Conferences-CFS
    It is interesting to read his paper and follow his reasoning now we all know more about it. The rabbit retrovirus had been linked to inflammatory syndromes, Rheumatoid arthritis, and Sjogrens syndrome, which was discussed on this forum a litle while ago, and is similar to ME in many ways.
  19. Bob

    Bob

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    Hi Sam,
    Yes, like you say, DeFreitas's virus was not a C-type, whereas Gibbon Ape Leukemia Virus is a C-type.
    The only link between the two that I was making was that I thought the CDC had found GaLV in some of DeFreitas's CFS samples. But I might be wrong about that... My memory is useless.
    I'll try and find the info and post it here.

    Thanks for posting the details of that paper... I'll have a look at that.
    Bob

    ETA:
    Apparently Hillary Johnson has said that the CDC contaminated Elaine DeFreitas's samples with GaLV.
    I don't know any more than that.
    So I might have been wrong to say that the CDC detected GaLV in DeFreitas's samples - I don't know the exact facts.
  20. Bob

    Bob

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    It will be very interesting if the WPI's research is a step towards discovering that all the 'rumour viruses' were not rumours after all.

    There are many unexplained diseases, and 'autoimmune' diseases, that we have very little insight into, and which are awaiting answers.

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