Could taking SSRI have contributed to my relapse?

[blueberry]

So, just in case any future person should search for this subject, I have to come out and say that 4 days post a last, half-dose, I am in very bad shape physically. I'm in the worst crash I have had in a year. Mentally, emotionally, I am absolutely fine. I can be a bit impulsive sometimes, and just pretty much stopped taking the Sertraline. My GP told me I was on such a low dose (50mg) that just stopping would be fine. So I had a full dose Monday and a half dose Tuesday, none since then. I've been on them about 15 months, please read initial post for context. ME-wise, I was already physically depleted after a couple of weeks of unexpected events, middle-of -night emergency vet dramas with the dog, two bereavements, long drives to take the dog to a referral vet hospital 2 hrs away....I work 18 hrs a week, too. But even with that (and the accompanying PEM) I wouldn't have expected to crash this badly, as I have been resting a lot. This is not my usual PEM. I did not time this experiment well. Reader, be warned! I suppose we all react differently to taking and withdrawing from medication. I'm just so surprised that I shrugged off the emotional effects of withdrawal but am so physically unwell. This could be a coincidence. It coud be some kind of virus. But, reluctantly, I've resorted to taking a half-dose of the sertraline to see if it helps curb this awful crash. I'll be fine eventually, but wanted to write this up fully just in case it helps someone else, sometime. A new "fresh hell" keeps life interesting!

 

[andyguitar]

I doubt that your current difficulties are a coincidence. As for your GP saying stopping Sertraline would be fine..... how these drugs work and what effect they have on the individual is open to debate. The effect of stopping them after 15 months will do something. What that 'something' is would be well nigh impossible to predict. Good luck.

 

[blueberry]

I doubt that your current difficulties are a coincidence. As for your GP saying stopping Sertraline would be fine..... how these drugs work and what effect they have on the individual is open to debate. The effect of stopping them after 15 months will do something. What that 'something' is would be well nigh impossible to predict. Good luck.

Well, it caused/contributed to the worst crash ever. Just sarting to pull out of it after 10 days. Had to go back on the flipping pills. Will taper much more slowly next time, and not for a while. That scared the proverbial out of me!

 

[Thinktank]

Hi blueberry,

Sorry to hear about your relapse.

I take sertraline and have been on it long term.

In my experience, it actually helps energy because it helps with sleep. Besides acting on serotonin (which should help with melatonin production), my practitioner says there is new research showing it also acts on GABA which is a calming neurotransmitter.

Based on reports of people on here, viruses and stress would be enough to trigger a relapse.

Are you still on sertraline? What dose are you taking and is it still helping you?

 

[lenin]

after 12 years remission

what did you do to get that remission?

 

[Hip]

However, I had started taking sertraline, an SSRI, for winter blues just 3 months before the relapse.

Have you tried a light box for winter depression (seasonal affective disorder)? I find these work very well, and always have light box next to my computer screen during the dark UK winter months to treat my lifelong SAD. See this post for more info.

Has anyone got any experience of SSRIs making things worse, or maybe knows of some research?

When I tried an SSRI (citalopram) at a low dose to treat depression, just one pill hugely increased my depression levels within 1 or 2 hours of taking it. I've never ever experienced depression as bad as that SSRI created, with massively increased suicidal ideation. After half a day or so, the depression worse off (commensurate with th half-life of the drug), and I was back to baseline.

I suspect that in people like myself, who have ongoing low-level brain inflammation/inflammation (my ME/CFS was triggered by a viral brain infection), SSRIs can worsen depression, as SSRI drugs are know to modulate brain inflammation.

I think that these many accounts of teenagers with depression committing suicide after being given SSRI drugs might be explained by the adverse effect I experienced.

Not sure if this has any bearing on your own experience with SSRIs, but you might like to look into the effects of SSRI on brain inflammation. Several case studies have found viral infection in the brain tissues of ME/CFS patients.

Possibly the SSRI might have made your ME/CFS worse via the way it modulates brain inflammation.


SSRIs and other antidepressants can also cause post-SSRI sexual dysfunction and emotional blunting in a strikingly high percentage of users. But I am not sure if that could explain worsened ME/CFS symptoms.

In terms of treating depression, some safer antidepressant treatments are listed in this post.

 

[Wayne]

Has anyone got any experience of SSRIs making things worse, or maybe knows of some research? I'm just wondering if the drug has messed with my neuro-transmitters in unexpected ways.

@blueberry -- You might be interested in a 5-Min. segment (link below) that was broadcast recently on the CBS program Full Measure, with Sharyl Attkisson. It's an interview with a Psychiatrist who's never prescribed a drug for his patients, but has spent a great deal of time helping those who have become dependent on psychiatric drugs get off of them. He also wrote a book entitled, "Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal". It's the only book written on the topic.

In the video segment, the author describes the approval process for Prozac, which he became aware of when he was appointed to the discovery process by the U.S. government as part of a lawsuit againsdt Eli Lily. He relates how the lead investigator discovered during the approval process of Prozac that it was filled with "addictive sedatives". It also was discovered to have "amphetamine type" qualities, which could make depression worse, make people agitated, angry, more prone to suicide, etc. The interview paints a rather unflattering picture of the Psychiatric and Pharmaceutical Drug professions, which often work in collusion with the FDA to approve drugs without adequate warning about how much harm they can cause.

Mad with Medication: A New View on Psychiatric Drugs
BY FULL MEASURE STAFF SUNDAY, MARCH 17TH 2019

 

[Wayne]

@blueberry -- You would also likely find the following quite interesting, though it is quite long.

The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs
Millions of Americans have taken antidepressants for many years. What happens when it’s time to stop?
By Rachel Aviv

April 1, 2019

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Wayne, @blueberry

It's the only book written on the topic.

Not quite. Peter Breggin, a psychiatrist who's been fighting against irresponsible psychiatric prescribing, frequently over-prescribing, of psychoactive drugs for decades, wrote the pioneering works on this and is still battling against it

He stated in one of his early books (and made it the frontispiece for all his subsequent works) "The most dangerous thing anyone can do is walk into psychiatrist's office".

Here is his most recent book on how to get off psychiatric medications safely, written in 2012. I just became aware of this a couple of weeks ago, and will continue to post it anytime someone is battlng against these often devastating and sometimes lethal drugs, along with recommendations to the Ashland Protocol:

https://www.amazon.com/Psychiatric-Drug-Withdrawal-Prescribers-Therapists-ebook/dp/B0098JWEJO

 

[Wayne]

Not quite. Peter Breggin, a psychiatrist who's been fighting against irresponsible psychiatric prescribing, frequently over-prescribing, of psychoactive drugs for decades, wrote the pioneering works on this and is still battling against it

Hi @YippeeKi YOW !! -- Just to clarify, the book I referenced in my earlier post--"Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal"--was written by Peter Breggin. So it appears there's only one book written on the topic, and we're both attributing it to Dr. Breggin. I noticed your link goes to the same book as mine. (Nice to be on the same page withya! )

along with recommendations to the Ashland Protocol

I think it's known as the Ashton Manual, but I'd have to double check to be sure. Going for a walk is more of a priority for me at the moment however!

How are ya?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Hiya @Wayne ....
I must have missed an earlier post, the only reference I found was just above, as quoted below. But then, my bad ..... I didn't check the link, just took it for granted that was the title, have been knee deep in caribou poop (and not a caribou in sight) for most of the day, dealing with devilishly undefeatable, recuring problems
(great gnashings of teeth).

The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

I think it's known as the Ashton Manual, but I'd have to double check to be sure. Going for a walk is more of a priority for me at the moment however!

The Ashton Manual (and you're right, that's what it's called) describes what H.C. Ashton initially titled The Ashton Protocol, the only known method for hopefully getting off psychiatric drugs with minimal, or at least the least possible, damage. Tho you'd never know it (or of it) from Drs, who all turn either incredibly vague or incredibly combative when confronted with the damaging side effects of their tinkering.

And you're also right about the walk taking precedence. Hoping it was a good one in lovely mild weather

How are ya?

Been better. Will be again. And it's no where near as bad as the 'old days'. So there's that.

How are ya'll doing? Dont see you around as much lately, but then I'm not around as much either. Hoping all's tickety-boo .

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Wayne

And by tickety-boo, I mean in terms of the day-to-dayness of this sad little circus clown-car of an illness .

I'm afraid that I might have worded my first response to you re book on how to get off psych drugs clumsily, and that I may have irritated you, or come off as Missy Knows It All . That absolutely was not my intention, just a reflection of how clunky my brain is today. So please overlook any possible offense, as I know you already have. I just felt that it needed saying.

And now it's said. Probably clumsily .

And I'll try to get back to sleep, which would definitely improve my over-all brain function. Maybe. .

 

[blueberry]

what did you do to get that remission?

Hi, so sorry for very late reply, I've been away from this site for quite some time. I wish I could tell you what led to remission. I was trying a few things at the time. Acupuncture was my main treatment, I was taking amytriptyline for pain and sleep and my journey towards remission started with spending a good few weeks living outdoors under canvas up a hill in Southern Spain. I was also taking some chinese medicine, think it was cloud mushroom. I'm managing my symptoms this time round, having acupuncture again, taking a range of supplements and with all this I'm managing to work 20 hrs a week which I built up to after an initial period of 5 months off work.

 

[blueberry]

@blueberry -- You would also likely find the following quite interesting, though it is quite long.

The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs
Millions of Americans have taken antidepressants for many years. What happens when it’s time to stop?
By Rachel Aviv

April 1, 2019

Thanks so much. I am still on them, but have a plan to use these resources to start a slow taper over a long period, next spring. That way any SAD issues will be out of the way. Much appreciated.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@blueberry

I'm managing my symptoms this time round, having acupuncture again, taking a range of supplements and with all this I'm managing to work 20 hrs a week which I built up to after an initial period of 5 months off work.

That's really impressive, both the self-managing and the trip to Spain and the work schedule. I think you're doing terrifically well. Cheering you on enthusiastically !!!

 

[blueberry]

@blueberry

That's really impressive, both the self-managing and the trip to Spain and the work schedule. I think you're doing terrifically well. Cheering you on enthusiastically !!!

Thank you so much! Means a lot to get cheers from someone who actually understands the condition xx

 

[Wayne]

Thanks so much. I am still on them, but have a plan to use these resources to start a slow taper over a long period, next spring. That way any SAD issues will be out of the way. Much appreciated.

Hi @blueberry -- Congratulations on the improvements you've been able to achieve! -- Regarding your plans to slow taper, I'll just mention that I did a major taper from clonazepam many years ago, and fortunately, was able to do it fairly successfully. It did have its rough spots, but compared to others' experiences, I feel quite fortunate.

What I wanted to share with you is that for various reasons, I purchased a home mHBOT chamber last fall for about $7,000. I go into it just about every day, averaging about 45 minutes. I can't tell you how much it has benefited my brain and neurological system. I feel I still deal with the excitotoxicity that caused me to start clonzaepam in the first place, but the daily mHBOT takes the edge off of that excitotoxicity in a major way.

I've found other things that help take that edge off as well. But of all the things I would like to have on hand if I were to go through another kind of major drug withdrawal that really stresses the brain and neurological system, its the mHBOT chamber I would not want to be without. If I were running some kind of "drug detox" clinic, I would likely make it a major part of my protocol.

I realize $7,000 is not inexpensive, but if it's something you "might" be able to afford, then I would encourage you to consider it. Of course, you'd want to "try it out" before taking such a step. Some clinics offer sessions ranging from $70-$100+. Some areas rent them out for about $600/month. Lots of different options. I've heard they hold their value well, so if you could afford loan payments for a while, you could likely recoup much of your original investment if you chose not to keep it. -- I plan on having one for the rest of my life!

Again, congratulations on your improvements!