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Could I have Babesia?

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Daffodil, Dec 28, 2015.

  1. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    hi all. so, i am hitting another rough patch. my brain fog is back with almost full force and i am not doing as well as i was several months ago. back then, i was still mostly housebound but generally felt like i was on the right track. at that time, i had been on azithromycin and clarithroymycin. i was taken off them for a while, got a lot worse, then tried them again but did not feel improvements.

    my doc is doing some probiotic gut stuff at the moment and things are just bad. so I have been doing some desperation-type thinking and googling.

    now, through most of my illness, my symptoms have been SEVERE brain fog, neck stiffness, fatigue, malaise, etc....but no actual pain - just major pressure in the head. also, night sweats and heat intolerance. due to this, docs over the years have suspected babesia and have tested for it repeatedly - through Igenex and even with the FISH test, more recently. everything was negative.

    but the more i look up babesia, the more my symptoms seem to match that one.

    I wanted to know what the likelihood was of my still having Babesia...cuz i did feel like i was responding to chlarithromycin for a long while and i believe that treats it (although I am sure it treats other things, too).

    I ordered a Nutramedix herb called Enula...maybe if i try that and get some reaction, I will get a clue regarding Babesia?

    I cannot send blood to Fry labs that easily and cost is becoming a major factor..but I wonder if that testing is better?

    Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    xoxo
     
    merylg likes this.
  2. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    You're not likely to get very far with enula alone. It didn't appear to have any effect on my babesia. If you're interested in experimenting with herbs you're probably better off going the cryptolepis, sida acuta, wormwood/artemisinin route. I've found garlic helpful too.

    Also, if you improved on the antibiotics that target bugs in the cell, this might be a sign for you to continue down this road. I believe those of us with ME/CFS have far more of a problem with these infections.
     
  3. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    And in my case, Banderol.
     
  4. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    thanks guys. I guess i will try a few of the babesia herbs and see what happens. I would like to tell my doc something about this when i see him at the end of Jan.

    i dont think my local doc will agree to prescribing Coartem for me, sadly.
     
  5. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi @Daffodil ,

    It's regrettable that you have tried so many treatments and are still suffering so.

    Thank you for documenting your process here, even though the news must be hard to deliver.

    I think I remember that you wrote of having elevated lactate, even after so many rounds of abx.

    I've been reading about abx, and as an amateur, I've noticed that there are only certain ones that are active against lactic acid producing bacteria. LAB are resistant to many abx. They can grow more when other bacteria are inhibited.

    There is some information about meningitis-like infections even caused by some Lactobacillus species, unfortunately.

    I hope the best for you.
     
    Daffodil likes this.
  6. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    Hi Daff, maybe you could verify if your babesia-like symptoms (night sweats/ breathing problems/ dry coughs etc) increase a lot when approaching full moon.
    I know it doesn't sound very serious, but babesia is one of the few organisms -don't remember where I read that, sorry- to reproduce at this particular time.
    If it is the case, then try some of the toughest herbs mentioned by Dufresne, you should see some positive
    impact.
    For info, full moon was on Saturday night in December.

    I noticed this pattern for me in October for the first time (before I didn't know it). I had full night sweats exactly on full moon that month, changed pijamas twice in the night.
    This month, Friday afternoon I began to experiment breathing problems with cough - asthma like. It was one day before fool moon.

    I had two courses of coartem which eradicated the symptoms for several months (4-5), but didn't solve the problem which reappeared later, that's why I have switched to herbals.
     
  7. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    So I have been thinking....since my brain fog cleared up on Rocephinhow could I have babesia cuz Rocpehin is not used for Babesia....but then I found some place where it said the new approach uses Rocephin for it....but then other places say no.

    Of course, it is possible the Rocephin targeted something else which was making my fog worse, and now I just have Babesia and things are not as agonizing ...(but still pretty bad)

    Any thoughts?
     
  8. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    wow! Coartem eradicated it? that is awesome.

    I have not noticed any correlation with the full moon but I never paid attention to when it was a full moon either.

    I will say that it is definitely not every night that I have the night sweats and I always wonder why it happens on some nights and not others.

    xoxox
     
  9. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    Strictly talking about night sweats, which are often associated with babesia, I got a tip off a person on lyme.net and got my doc to prescribe famvir, which completely cured my night sweats (but no other symptom) after 4 weeks on the famvir.
     
  10. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    @Daffodil
    I can always tell when a drug or herb is having an effect against my babesia because the bug gets stunned and seemingly stops producing oxidative stress for about a day or so. I didn't get any of this with Rocephin. But that's just my take on it.

    Drugs and herbs which have had an effect on my babesia are:

    chloroquine with primaquine
    quinine (combined with clindamycin or azithromycin)
    doxycycline
    ertapenem
    proguanil
    cryptolepis
    sida acuta
    wormwood
     
  11. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    thanks a lot @Dufresne and @Charles555nc. i didnt know doxycycline killed babesia. i have some of that left. i just emailed my local doc to see if he would let me do a short trial of Coartem. he said it isnt available in canada and even if it was, he wouldnt give it to me unless i had test evidence of infection.

    yesterday, i took 20 drops of banderol but nothing happened.

    it looks like i will have to wait until i see my doc to do anything.

    the only thing Valtrex did for me - as far as i can remember (which isnt very far) - is lower my RNase L drastically.

    xoxo
     
  12. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    Banderol doesn't seem to hit my babs.

    Doxy is not a first line treatment and certainly won't get you very far on its own, but it has an effect.

    You could always substitute pulsed artemisinin for Coartem. Though you'd want to have a good protocol in place so as not to open yourself up to artemisinin resistance. Wormwood apparently doesn't carry this same risk.
     
  13. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    i found this on Dr. Mercola's site:

    However, this too has its drawbacks and difficulties. For example, the FISH test for Babesia is done on blood. But Babesia lives in the central nervous system, joints, and connective tissue. It doesn't live in your blood stream, at least not in significant amounts, so it can easily be missed when looking at blood.

    and a quote from Dr. Klinghardt:

    "I don't have a financial investment in it, but it's the gold standard in our field," he says. "They use two different antigens. The commercial labs and hospitals and so forth, they use one antigen and are notorious in under-diagnosing Lyme disease. We recommend to rather not test it than get a false negative, which will sometimes lead the patient 20 years on the wrong track. With the other co-infections, the detection rate drops way down."
    ------------------


    but some of the stuff he says seems to be kind of out there, like saying that removing microwaves, wireless internet, etc etc is more important than even the meds.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
  14. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    @Dufresne ...my old NYC doc put me on artemenisin for a long time...I cant even remember for what. it did nothing at the time...but I know that cant rule it out
     
  15. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    @Daffodil
    Mercola appears to be confusing babesia with borrelia. He's right that the FISH test is an analysis of blood, looking for the pathogen inside red blood cells, but there's a good reason for this: that's where the infection would be. There's no evidence to suggest babesia is anywhere but the blood. You'll here people talking about babesia in the brain but all this is is babesia in the vasculature of the brain, and there's evidence in the literature supporting this. That bit about the bug residing in connective tissue, the CNS, and joints is something you hear attributed to borrelia. He should really correct this stuff on his site.

    As for Klinghardt, he's even a little far out there for me. He's worth listening to if you're into alternative medicine but he's always coming up with those "you have to do this if you want to recover" exhortations. It really seems like he's stringing people along in how he sells his shtick. Which isn't to say there's not some value in some of the stuff he offers, just that you shouldn't take everything he says as solid medical info.

    I'm partial to Horowitz. Actually I love the guy. His work almost completely agrees with my experience with Lyme and co. I've been tinkering around with his intracellular protocols lately and I'm finally able to kill what I assume is intracellular borrelia. And interestingly this is worsening my PEM, which has me thinking PEM and borrelia toxins are linked in my illness. This is the one symptom of mine I didn't think I had much of an understanding of.

    Incidentally what Horowitz recommends for the cellular form of borrelia is hydroxychloroquine along with the other intracellular antibiotics (doxycycline, minocycline, azithromycin, etc), but the hydroxychloroquine is essential. I've been taking chloroquine as part of my babesia protocol, which of course is metabolized into hydroxychloroquine, so all I had to do was add in some doxy and I was there. I used to be able to take 400 mg of doxy without discernible effect on borrelia, and now I'm on my ass with 100 mg. So there you go. I highly recommend this approach to anyone who has stagnated with borrelia treatment. I believe the cells is where the infections are in ME/CFS.
     
  16. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    You don't want to take artemisinin on its own if you have babesia. Moreover it's not the kind of extract you want to be taking without a clear purpose and regimen. Long-term artemisinin doesn't make much sense to me.
     
  17. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    @Dufresne ..this is so interesting..especially about your doxy experience.

    my doc says cfs is "caused by intracellular bacteria"
     
  18. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Sweats. Dam just had one. Just head that sweats. I'm on anti everything at the moment .

    My chronic sinusitis i have thought might be babesia, I have no idea if it is but symptoms can be similar . But im doing well on my bactroban spray which i guess would only help sinusitis compared to babesia, that i know of.
     
  19. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    I've not heard of babesia causing nose and sinus problems. My sensitivities though, which babesia might factor into, can cause me a fair bit of nasal congestion.
     
  20. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    @Daffodil check out Bruhner's protocol for babesia and other infections. I have mycoplasma pneumonia and although I'm having luck with doxy I was looking for other stuff to kick it's ass even more.

    He lists the protocol, many things that @Dufresne said, dosing and dosing.
     
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