Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Cortisol output in adolescents with chronic fatigue syndrome: Pilot study on the comparison with hea

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by A.B., Sep 15, 2014.

  1. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes:
    23,097
    This is from King's College. Now they're claiming that CBT can normalize hypocortisolim.

    http://www.jpsychores.com/article/S0022-3999(14)00320-1/abstract
     
    NK17 likes this.
  2. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes:
    23,097
    I think these results can be explained by the lack of a treatment control group, and these patients having mild fatigue that resolves on its own after a while. CBT is once again given credit for people getting better on their own.
     
    biophile, Dolphin, Valentijn and 3 others like this.
  3. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

    Messages:
    2,091
    Likes:
    10,354
    Earth
    I can't be bothered to get access to the full article. What criteria are they using?
     
  4. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes:
    23,097
    I don't have access to the full article either, but since Trudie Chalder is involved, probably Oxford criteria.
     
  5. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

    Messages:
    2,091
    Likes:
    10,354
    Earth
    You astonish me!
     
  6. user9876

    user9876 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,582
    Likes:
    18,163
    moderated with many others
    The sample sizes are quite small and they don't quote values for associations and significance so hard to conclude anything from the abstract. What is worrying about the result is they start with a CFS group of 46 or perhaps 47 but quote a significant increase on a group of 21.

    The main thing it made me wonder is how much cortisol levels vary naturally and hence could there results be a result of natural variation or say additional stress of going back to a hospital for blood tests where you have had sessions saying 'you are not ill - you must push yourself'.
     
  7. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,086
    Likes:
    17,138
    My cortisol would go up too if forced to sit through six months of psychobabble.
     
  8. daisybell

    daisybell Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,601
    Likes:
    7,355
    New Zealand
    So if I give up any attempts at perfectionism my cortisol will normalise and I can jump out of bed in the mornings!!!

    I can't believe that people can continue to push such delusional research findings... And get them published.
     
  9. Min

    Min Guest

    Messages:
    1,386
    Likes:
    1,927
    UK
    The problem in the UK will be that our poor children will receive 'treatment' resulting from this pseudoscience.
     
  10. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

    Messages:
    4,613
    Likes:
    12,428
    South Australia
    My old hypothesis of the observed hypocortisolism is that most patients actually suffer less day to day stressors than the average person and thus normalised to a lower level of cortisol and isn't really related to the disease at all.

    Of course my hypothesis wasn't very popular here or elsewhere for that matter...
     
  11. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

    Messages:
    640
    Likes:
    1,289
    It is well known when you get more active your cortisol will be higher, especially when you have lack of energy. This doesn't say anything about the illness. When they meassure the cortisol level after the CBT it will be low again.
     
    Snow Leopard and Valentijn like this.
  12. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

    Messages:
    640
    Likes:
    1,289
    And maybe the controls are stressed persons and very active.
     
  13. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    764
    Likes:
    2,818
    Psychholes.
     
  14. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes:
    16,576
    I think there may be some merit to that hypothesis, depending on how 'stressor' is defined. There are many biological systems involved in exertion and activity. Obviously some are affected severely enough to cause disability. Others may not be affected at all and suffer from the usual consequences of disuse (regardless of the reasons for disuse).
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
  15. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,642
    Likes:
    28,102
    More than 50% were lost:

     
    WillowJ and Simon like this.
  16. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,642
    Likes:
    28,102
    Eight correlations were looked at for "area under the curve day" - only two were significant.

     
    Simon likes this.
  17. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,642
    Likes:
    28,102
    Main results:

    Info on SDQ:
     
    Simon and Valentijn like this.
  18. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,642
    Likes:
    28,102
     
  19. Valentijn

    Valentijn WE ARE KINA

    Messages:
    14,280
    Likes:
    45,787
    With no improvement on the Chalder Fatigue Scale, it sounds like the return to school is an arbitrary part of their "therapy", rather than an actual sign of improvement. I doubt they'll be able to maintain that, and also doubt that they're getting any value out of school while they're still that ill.
     
    Dolphin likes this.
  20. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,642
    Likes:
    28,102
    Stress increases cortisol generally but we'll claim low stress indicates stress in people with CFS. :confused:


    I'm not sure that the CBT model predicts prosocial behaviours i.e. "kind, considerate, helpful and sharing behaviours".

    Not sure it predicts perfectionist behaviours either.

    Also, the perfectionist scale scores didn't change during the trial suggesting CBT doesn't influence such scores.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
    Simon, Esther12 and Valentijn like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page