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Cortisol not being consistent in blood and saliva

Discussion in 'Hormones' started by Beyond, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    One thing I have noticed that is pretty nuts is that my saliva, DHEA, pregnenolone and progesterone and urinary cortisol are wicked low. My blood DHEAS is low as well BUT my blood cortisol is usually high, or very high, off the limit range. Is this because of my fear of needles? It is not such a big fear, I just get nervous when they draw my blood, like most of people. This really raises questions, because at the end blood cortisol should be the best measure, because cortisol travels trough blood and not saliva. I mean if the cortisol in blood raises because of fear then that means my adrenals are NOT that fried up.

    My blood DHEA, ACTH and cortisol were tested by allopaths in blood several times and they were low, high and high respectively. The urinary and saliva were done by an alternative functional doc. Once I tested with a private lab my blood cortisol and it was low, but not wicked low, it was in range. I also tested saliva cortisol with this lab and it was very very low.

    Why when the tests are performed by allopaths my basal cortisol is so high? Is blood a better measure as opposed to what we are told in the Internet or it is not? o_O
     
  2. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    I believe serum measures total cortisol and saliva only measures free cortisol, but don't take this to the bank as I'm very unsure about it. Many people do believe the needle in serum test can cause a quick elevation of cortisol, but haven't seen this written in a study.

    ETA: My cortisol test is very low at 8am, but climbs to above range by 12pm and is flatlined from then all the way to 12am, so it is dropping drastically between 12am to 8am when it supposed to be opposite. I had 2 - 24 hour cortisol - urine and both times it was "0" as in no detectable cortisol. I don't know what this means, but I know my rhythm is messed up since I usually don't go to sleep until 5 or 6am and wake up about 11am. I think I'm going to do another 4x saliva and see what it looks like and if it is still the same I am going to try some Isocort first thing in the morning and use phosphatylserine in the afternoon and night to bring it down.
     
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  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    August59 is probably right.

    Also, cortisol is deactivated into cortisone. This wouldn't be of the same use to the body but it might still be picked up on a serum cortisol test.
     
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  4. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Interesting guys, thanks for answering. I definitely KNOW I have "adrenal fatigue", because as August, I too don´t have a circadian rhythm. I just lay in bed until I drop asleep and often takes hours. I don´t feel drowsiness or sleepiness at night since the onset of my symptoms three years ago (or four?). My 24 h saliva showed very low levels in all parts of the day.

    I know that my adrenal hormones especially cortisol are very very low, but is strange that the serum test of the allopaths comes back so high and saliva and urine are SO low. Both urine and saliva test FREE cortisol so that might be why. I know that because the other day looking at the spreadsheet of tests in the GP I read that there is a test of urine and it said "free cortisol". ACTUALLY, my serum testosterone (total) is always very high, but my FREE testosterone is always low or very low.

    http://www.macses.ucsf.edu/research/allostatic/pdf/faqs-salivcort.pdf

    In the Internet it says "salivary cortisol measures unbound cortisol"... At the end, it never ceases to amaze me how clueless and pathetic are the allopaths. They test a person with severe adrenal fatigue and their test is so inappropiate that actually comes back saying that person has HIGH cortisol!! How many people are suffering needlessly because of this cyclopean incompetence?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
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  5. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Free cortisol levels in salvia and serum do correlate, but they are lower in saliva. How much lower, I'm not sure at this point.

    http://cro.sagepub.com/content/13/2/197.full
     
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  6. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    That´s an interesting input Adreno. But the point is... what they are testing when they draw my blood is NOT free cortisol so...
     
  7. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Your free serum cortisol can be calculated if you know your CBG (cortisol-binding globulin):

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12727952
     
  8. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    No they never put that value (CBG) in my tests. What I can get out of all of this is that their blood measurements of "basal cortisol" are very misleading and of no diagnostic utility. Is pretty obvious that my free cortisol is very low, however what comes out always in the standard tests done by endos or GP´s is high "basal cortisol". Thus, we find that this statement from the link I provided,
    and what can be read in the study you linked (aprox 80% of serum cortisol is bound) correlates well with reality and my personal observations.

    So now what is strange is, since my albumin is not high in tests, what could cause such an increase in CBG? o_O
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
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  9. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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  10. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Gread find adreno. The study shows people with certain mutation have higher CBG and lower cortisol and this mutation is more common in CFS people. This is actually such a good find that I will add it to a list/thread I am putting together about HPA and neurotransmitter genes and how to potentially treat them.

    Full text here. http://www.researchgate.net/publica...R224_polymorphism/file/d912f5101ac2a66e8b.pdf

    However, the most disabling and rare of these SERPINA6 (the name of the CBG gene) appearing in CFS studies are actually those that REDUCE CBG .I have to find that rs in the study.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  11. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    So is this something we can look up on 23andme?
     
  12. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    I am still trying to gather the rs´s, but yes we can look it up in 23andme. The gene is SERPINA6, but I haven´t been able to get the specific rs´s...
     
  13. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I have had all the fun I can have with 23andme tonight trying to get the text file...but please post the rs's here if you find them. I'd be very interested!
     
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  14. invisiblejungle

    invisiblejungle Senior Member

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    I've tested my saliva cortisol 4 times over the past 6 years, and it's always been low. However, my 24-hour urinary cortisol was normal, and my serum cortisol was near the top of the normal range.

    If your serum cortisol is normal or even high, I would think of it as a "good" thing. Those of us who have spent a lot of time studying adrenal issues have probably made ourselves paranoid, thinking, "Omigod, my adrenals are dead!" If serum cortisol is not low, then it means that the adrenals are able to produce.

    I definitely think that CBG is the culprit for some of us. I can't find the reference right now, but a thyroid website mentioned that hypothyroidism can increase CBG levels. http://tiredthyroid.com/ (By the way, this is the best thyroid info site I've found so far.)
     
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  15. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Hey invisiblejungle, actually the mystery lays in the fact that my free cortisol is very low in urine and saliva along with all the other adrenal hormones, glucorticoids and metabolites. My adrenals are shot, that is for sure. So I was wondering why in blood is always so high... Yah I know I have sub-clinical hypothyroidism, you always develop that from years of adrenal fatigue, plus it was confirmed in my urine thyroid tests.
     
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Two Types of Cortisol Test Provided by Genova Diagnostics — Which is the More Appropriate?

    I am thinking about testing my cortisol levels, and noticed that Genova Diagnostics provide two types of cortisol tests, detailed below. Which might be more appropriate for ME/CFS testing?


    I presume the first test above is the normal one taken by ME/CFS patients. It seems that most studies have shown ME/CFS patients have lower cortisol levels throughout the 24 hour cycle: this study found a cortisol was significantly lower in ME/CFS patients across the whole day, as did this study and this study.

    The second test above appears to be a measure of HPA axis function. This study: Salivary cortisol response to awakening in chronic fatigue syndrome found that ME/CFS patients had a lower cortisol response to awakening, which implies impaired HPA axis function.

    In an article by Cort Johnson, he says: "One area we do pretty much understand about ME/CFS is cortisol – the subject of dozens of studies. It’s pretty clear now that it’s the cortisol awakening response, not total cortisol levels, that’s primarily off in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome."

    This statement by Cort is confusing, because both the cortisol awakening response, and cortisol levels throughout the 24 hour cycle seem off in ME/CFS.
     
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  17. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    There are in fact multiple CBG snps that produce problems that resemble CFS. I was a subject in one of those studies, and test negative for the known CBG problematic snps (I am unsure of the date, but before 2000).

    Its not just that CBG carries cortisol, and probably facilitates cell absorption, its that its also possibly a hormone that modifies the response. My info on this part is like 14 years out of date, I do not know the current position, but its worth keeping in mind.
     
  18. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    anyone have the CBG snps?
     
  19. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    I think this is saying the 2 snps in the cbg gene that cause problems are rare

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22337907

    CBG A51V bound steroid normally, but its production/secretion was severely impaired; CBG E102G was produced normally, but its cortisol-binding capacity was abnormally low, whereas CBG R64Q and R64W were produced and bound cortisol normally.
     
  20. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    snps from cbg articles, not sure they are correct

    Two SNPs in SERPINA6 (rs941601 and rs8022616)

    I am rs941601 CC and rs8022616 AA I do not know the risk allele
     

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