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CoQ10 deficiency related to multiple ME/CFS symptoms and early mortality

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by shrewsbury, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    Rich - heart failure and thyroid hormone

    Hi Rich,
    My doctor advised me to take thyroid hormone lately and said that if my ferritin was too low, I would get palpitations and racing heart, which is exactly what happened. Are these the symptoms that would present when there is a metobolic problem in the heart ? Do you know why this is ? Or could low ferrtin and metabolic problemin the heart present the saem symptoms ?

    Suzy


  2. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

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    Hey Maxine,

    Do you know where I can get that video from or any of Cheneys videos?

    Thanks, Jerry
  3. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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  4. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Suzy.

    I'll take a stab at this one, and you can decide whether it makes sense.

    Ferritin is the protein that stores iron.

    If ferritin is low, it means that the availability of iron to your body is low.

    Iron is needed to make hemoglobin for red blood cells, which is necessary to carry oxygen to the cells, via the blood.

    When a person is low in thyroid hormone, and it is added, the metabolic rate of the cells is raised.

    A higher metabolic rate demands more oxygen.

    If the amount of hemoglobin is too low, for example because the availability of iron is low, then there may not be enough oxygen-carrying capacity in the blood to supply what is needed at the higher metabolic rate.

    When the cells do not receive enough oxygen, the heart will be stimulated to put out blood at a higher rate and to pump more vigorously. Perhaps this can account for what you experienced.

    By the way, it's good to see you (literally) here, after communicating with you for so many years elsewhere on the internet!

    Best regards,

    Rich
  5. gracenote

    gracenote All shall be well . . .

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    ferritin

    So any ideas, Rich or anyone, on how or when or if one should try to raise ferritin levels? Or is low ferritin a symptom and something else needs to be targeted first? And what do you consider a "healthy" ferritin level?
  6. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

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  7. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Read it? The first link should have taken you to the video??

    lol, did I send the wrong link? Oh, I get it. You were saying you read it before but now you saw it on the video?

    Let me know,

    Maxine
  8. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

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    LOL I really replied badly to that. No wonder my doctor doesnt understand me :Retro smile:

    The link you gave me was perfect. What I was trying to say was I had previously read about the topic in this video but now having watched the video I understand much better what Cheney was trying to say.

    I hope that makes sense because reading that back is confusing me, its just one of those days :tongue:

    Thanks Jerry
  9. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Jerry

    No problem Jerry, we are all working with cognitive difficulties here! No need to EVER apologize or say your replied badly. I wouldn't have been surprised if I HAD sent you just text.:eek:

    Take care,

    Maxine
  10. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    Thanks Rich

    Hi Rich,
    It's nice to see you here as well.

    That does make sense to me. However, my hemoglobin tests normal. But I do have low RBC count so I think I might stillhave oxygen delivery issues even though hemoglobin is ok.

    Is the hemoglobin measurement per cell or overall ?

    Suzy
  11. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Suzy.

    On the complete blood count report, the hemoglobin is given on the basis of per unit volume of blood. It is also given as MCH, which is mean cell hemoglobin, i.e. on a per red blood cell basis. If you have a low RBC count but normal hemoglobin, it could be because your red blood cells are larger than normal. This can happen if there is a functional folate deficiency in the cells in the bone marrow, as can occur if there is a partial methylation cycle block, because that causes the folate to leak out of the cells via what is called the "methyl trap" mechanism. The red blood cell size is given as MCV (mean corpuscular volume) on the complete blood count report. If the red blood cells are larger than normal, it may affect their ability to deliver oxygen to the tissues.

    Rich
  12. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, gracenote.

    The normal range for ferritin varies, depending on the lab or the reference book you use. I've seen ranges of 30 to 250 in general, or 10 to 150 (for females) and 12 to 300 (for mailes), or 18 to 160 (for females) and 18 to 270 (for males), or 11 to 307 (for females) and 24 to 336 (for males), or 12 to 150 (for females) and 15 to 200 (for males). All of these are expressed in nanograms per milliliter.

    One physician has written me that women with these disorders tend to run somewhat low in ferritin, and that he hasn't had much success in raising them.

    As a researcher, and not a licensed physician, I need to refrain from giving individual treatment advice unless a physician is involved to review my suggestions. However, generally speaking, it's a good idea to try to head toward the middle of the reference range for most biochemical parameters.

    To build ferritin, its necessary to add iron. This can be a little tricky, because in these disorders there is often dybiosis in the gut, and adding iron orally can encourage the unfriendly bacteria, which need iron too. In fact, it may be that the dysbiotic bacteria are hoarding the iron, and that's why ferritin is low. And lately we are hearing that iron can stabilize the biofilms that these bacteria make and hide in. So the usual approach used by conventional doctors, which is to give ferrous sulfate, may cause more problems in people who have dysbiosis.

    I think Amy Yasko, Ph.D., N.D., recommends using lactoferrin. Lactoferrin will keep the iron from the bacteria, but will allow it to be absorbed into the body.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  13. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    hi
    anybody else have trouble watching that cheney video? it seems to stop at a certain point... where he's talking about cfids patients not having severe depression...
    is it just a teaser and you have to buy the full video?
    tnx
  14. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Hi aquariusgirl,

    I didn't have any problems watching it, but that was a couple of weeks ago - could be a problem now? Hope someone who has watched in last couple of days will be able to help you. When I did watch it a couple of weeks ago I found it frustrating that I couldn't back it up or fast forward - at least I couldn't on my computer.

    Good Luck,

    Maxine
  15. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

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    Hey the Cheney video works for me ok.

    Have you tried watching it gain since, it may just have been your internet connection that day :)
  16. Julia Rachel

    Julia Rachel

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    Hi All:
    High Blood Pressure has been linked with CMV Infection (see Harvard Study, May 2009) so it is important to have this co-infection tested for. My son and I use Spectracell Labs for our Spectracell Nutrional Assay test which is done 2x yearly to determine Vitamin & Mineral Deficiences in our bodies, then our specialist Prescribes correct vitamins and "flushers" dosage and quantities based on our results. My son takes
    Super BioActive Co-Q10 100mg 2x daily (with breakfast and dinner only). He also takes Methylcobalamin (MeB12) 1 mg per day, B5 500mg 2x daily, plus about 40 other vitamins, protein powders, d-ribose, etc...that his body is lacking. I am wondering if the high blood pressure is from the body not being able to "flush" with the vitamins? We take several vitamins to counter act and flush....was the high blood pressure present prior to taking the combination? I am assuming Probably not since you are writing about it here.....There are people on this site that know far more than I do about this issue....It just came to mind for me as a scientist to bring up the flushing factor.....and where you are purchasing your B12 and CoQ10..... We buy from Integrative Therapeutics and life Extension only....Blessings.Julia
  17. klutzo

    klutzo Senior Member

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    FWIW, I remember reading somewhere that ferretin needs to be 70 for proper delivery of thyroid hormone to the tissues. I don't know why. It also should not be over 100, because that is bad for your heart. Sorry I can't remember where I read that. I found it when I was looking for info, because huge prescription doses of vitamin D had lowered my ferritin from 71 down to 22 and I wanted to know if I should take iron to fix it. I read that vitamins D and E in large doses can do that to iron. BTW, if you have gut problems even so-called "gentle iron" like I took can rip you apart and make you very nauseous. I could not tolerate it. My ferretin went back up to 40 on it's own and I left it there, since I could not tolerate the iron.

    Also, I am one of those rare ones with high blood pressure, and yes, I have a strong family history of it on both sides. I was tested for CMV and showed previous exposure, but no active infection.

    klutzo
  18. consuegra

    consuegra

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  19. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    I put a copy of this article in the Library
  20. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Rich
    Sorry if you've answered this...but what do you, or cheney, recommend for supporting the heart BEFORE moving to thyroid supplmentation? I think he has backed off the whole mito support cocktail.. ..so what do you suggest?
    cheers
    AQ

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