1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Join the National PR Campaign for ME: Power to the Patient (P2tP)
Have you had enough of all the neglect and abuse of ME/CFS patients? Gabby Klein says now is the time for a National PR Campaign for ME/CFS to impress a change. Join the Patient Revolution to restore power to ME patients ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Copper Toxicity

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, May 29, 2013.

  1. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    532
    Likes:
    140
    I was reading on copper toxicity and would like to get it checked. When I read the symptoms I feel I might have it.Anyone has any experience with it?
    Where I live there is no hair mineral analysis,but there is urine and serum copper tests. Which one should I go for?
     
  2. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

    Messages:
    302
    Likes:
    82
    Albuquerque
    what are the symptoms?
     
  3. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    7,264
    Likes:
    6,321
    Albuquerque
  4. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

    Messages:
    302
    Likes:
    82
    Albuquerque
    duh! Thanks sushi
     
  5. SJB944

    SJB944 Senior Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes:
    48
    Serum copper is standard, but there is also RBC. There seems to be no consensus on what High Copper in a hair test actually means. Some also look at Copper/zinc Sodase levels.

    I guess go for Serum Copper (some drs will also do Caeruloplasmin), as this is the most obvious indicator of high copper.

    As with just about every aspect of this illness it gets more confusing the more you dig. I have normal serum Copper, borderline high Caeruloplasmin, normal RBC Copper, high copper in hair analysis, and low Copper Sodase...

    which means...well, something and nothing.
     
    Valentijn and Little Bluestem like this.
  6. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    532
    Likes:
    140
    SJB944
    Yeah. Some articles say that serum test is useless for zinc and copper, as it doesn't give the functional levels inside of tissues. Your tests indicate high copper in ceruloplasmin and hair analysis? Have you chelated it?
     
  7. SJB944

    SJB944 Senior Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes:
    48
    Not specifically Arx, but I did remove any supplement with copper in it, and took large amounts of Vit C and zinc over the years. The test weren't convincing, and my symptoms sort of fitted, but then didn't also.

    Dr Myhill was pretty adamant that given my low Copper Sodase, ( a functional copper test), that copper supplementation was essential. I took some chelated Copper for a while with no noticeable positive impact.

    My conclusion is, that I have an issue with Copper in some way, but whether taking copper or removing copper doesn't address this issue. It is also a question of where the deficiency is and how do you address it?

    I mean if I'm copper toxic, why is Copper Sodase low? Problem with tests is they tend to open up more question then they answer!
     
  8. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    532
    Likes:
    140

    Agreed. I don't even have those tests available here in India. Just the serum and urine test,which I've read are not going to give a clue,maybe they will confuse me more! Any idea what should I do? I've started taking zinc(50mg),p5p(50mg), Vitamin C(1500mg) and ALA. Should I wait and see what happens,or go in for tests? I would love to have some answers,provided the tests are worth giving an answer.

    There is serum,random urine and 24 hour urine Zinc tests. Which one is the best to go for?
     
  9. xjhuez

    xjhuez Senior Member

    Messages:
    175
    Likes:
    42
    Just about anyone can find a few things that match with a huge list of symptoms like that.
     
  10. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    532
    Likes:
    140
    It's not just this list. I read elsewhere about zinc deficiency and copper toxicity. Why not try it out? It's just one more thing that can be ruled out,right?
     
  11. xjhuez

    xjhuez Senior Member

    Messages:
    175
    Likes:
    42
    If you believe you have a deficiency then by all means pursue it. My comment was directed at the long and broad list of symptoms in your link.
     
  12. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    532
    Likes:
    140

    That's true. It is a really long list. Everyone here is bound to have something from that list.
     
  13. SJB944

    SJB944 Senior Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes:
    48

    There is a little contention over ALA -- usually around amalgam fillings -- but zinc, P5P and vit C are generally all good things to try taking. If you have liquid zinc, you can do a taste test -- the science on it is a little sketchy (to say the least), but if there is little or no taste then arguably your are zinc deficient.

    In the end we are all our own guinea pigs...
     
  14. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    532
    Likes:
    140
    True..thanks for the tip.

    Any dosage suggestions for zinc,p5p and vitamin c?
     
  15. SJB944

    SJB944 Senior Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes:
    48
    I always say, start low and build up. Vit C obviously bowel tolerance will tell you when you are taking to much. !500mg seems like a decent amount. I think 50mg is quite a bit of zinc, but it all depends on how you tolerate it. Same goes for P5P. I still think the balance of argument favours taking a B-complex when taking additional Vit B's, but that is up for debate.
     
  16. SB_1108

    SB_1108

    Messages:
    52
    Likes:
    93
    After I became sick with CFS/Fibro/ME, I saw people commenting about the relationship between CFS and copper toxicity. I had a copper IUD (birth control) inserted about a year before I became sick - so when I thought there might be a connection I decided to do several tests to check my copper levels. My hair levels showed extremely low copper (bio-unavailable), my serum levels were normal but my ceruloplasim levels were low. I begin reading about hidden copper toxicity and decided to see if taking zinc, vitamin C and molybdenum together would help. Within 5 days I developed the copper detox symptoms (panic attacks, anxiety, hypoglycemia, rashes, allergic reactions, etc). I've been trying to resolve copper toxicity for about 16 months now. I've made a lot of progress (no longer bedridden) but I've read it can take 2-5 years to completely address. My last three hair analysis tests have shown elevated copper (indicating that I'm eliminating it now). If you can't afford to have the tests... a week of copper antagonists will give you a pretty good indication of whether or not it is a problem.
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  17. SB_1108

    SB_1108

    Messages:
    52
    Likes:
    93
    I should note that I take more than just those three supplements and I've found the methylation protocols to be immensely valuable to my progress with copper toxicity.

    I've noticed that if I take a supplement with copper - it makes my symptoms drastically worse. I also try to limit high copper foods - nuts, avocados, beans, liver, etc.
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  18. arx

    arx Senior Member

    Messages:
    532
    Likes:
    140
    Thanks SB_1108. I have got a hair analysis done but the results are 20 days away. I have started off with 1000 mg Vitamin C and 50 mg of elemental zinc in it's acetate form. What dosage do you recommend to start off with?
     
  19. SB_1108

    SB_1108

    Messages:
    52
    Likes:
    93
    I always try to take zinc gluconate or zinc piconolate. Gluconate is typically recommended for Wilson's disease patients and piconolate has been found to be more easily absorbed. 50mg is a good dosage to start off with...
     
  20. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    950
    Likes:
    91
    A woman who posted on here explained to me that we have high biounavailable copper because we don't have the carrier proteins to ferry them around so they accumulate in the liver.

    If I take large amounts of molybdenum or zinc I get very sick. I suspect copper toxicity.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page