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Conversation about Walitt (Split Thread).

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Flo, Mar 5, 2016.

  1. Flo

    Flo

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    This thread has been split from the thread -- "http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ainst-unfair-treatment-of-me-advocates.43435/" which is why the first sentence refers to Jeanette Burmeister.

    The thread turned into off-topic comments about Walitt which resulted in the thread being split.


    Sorry, Jeanette's blog post about Walitt was an attack. What do you call this?

    "Walitt’s claims lack even an inkling of science. In the demeanor of a hokey cult leader, he lays out his horrifying *beliefs* about fibromyalgia."

    Calling him a cult leader? Really? Call me a cult leader and you would get worse than what you experienced from Dr. Conye. If she throws statements like that out on the internet she should realize there will be backlash. Half of being sick, and I have ME, is knowing when to fight and when not to.

    The truth is Walitt knows that ME is an illness, but Jeanette takes what he says out of context. In fact Jeanette's worsening symptoms actually prove Walitt's ideas. That MENTAL STRESS effects us physically. That is a psychosomatic disorder, it does not mean it is made up, it means it is created by mental stress.

    Walitt said in that interview; "EMOTIONS EFFECT OUR SENSATIONS." and there is a biochemical reason for this. That is what Jeanette is experiencing right now!. He is also saying that Doctors do not understand this yet. He says there is an underlying biology (ie, not in our head) but that predisposes us to psycho originating sensitivities.

    That truth is why mediation helps me so much. It changes my psycho and it effects my somatic.

    Everyone needs to take a breath and step back and mediate on this! Walitt is using complex language that should not be taken superficially.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2016
  2. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member

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    That sounds like a threat. Are you trying to start a fight?
     
  3. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    I don't understand why some feel the need to put lipstick on a pig. Walitt believes patients are not sick. If you want a world where patients are sent home and told that they are perfectly fine but just need some psychological help, then fine, continue to support people like Walitt.

    Neglect with a smile and kind words is still neglect.

    The reasoning that worsening of symptoms proves that a disease is psychosomatic is flawed by the way. Many symptoms worsen under stress, that doesn't mean that the root cause is psychosomatic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
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  4. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    This is all that was written about the link between Coyne's attack and JB's decline in health:

    Which you somewhat tastelessly take as proof of your pre-existing beliefs, ie:

    There is no justification for assuming that her decline is due to mental stress or emotions. Following the attack she chose to defend her reputation by writing a 4,000 word blog post, which was an increase in activity that pushed her into declining health. Now she has to choose between managing her health and continuing to defend herself, she's had to choose her health. The only time the word "emotional" was used was to describe Coyne's attack. No reference was made to mental stress.

    To claim that emotions and mental stress effects (sic) us physically, and demonstrate by assuming that someone whose health has declined must have been emotional and stressed, is a circular and fallacious argument. It lacks even an inkling of science.
     
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  5. Flo

    Flo

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    Wow, really? I am saying if someone attacks me I will defend myself. What is wrong with that? Is it because I am a woman?
     
  6. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    You took that as a threat? Come on.

    I think it would be better to try engaging in discussion and debate rather than jumping to outrage over 'threats', 'abuse', 'harassment' or whatever. It seems like part of the recent problems have been that instead of people taking the time to explain why they disagree with one another they're just asserting that other people's beliefs or actions are offensive and unacceptable, and that they must be removed.

    What a surprise that this hasn't been very productive.
     
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  7. Kina

    Kina

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    Please avoid having a flame war here. Any rule breaches will be removed immediately.

    Thank you.
     
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  8. Flo

    Flo

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    You are so wrong, watch the video, he says there is a BIOMECHANICAL reason for ME. HE says that, in the interview. You all just do not know how he is using the term psychosomatic. It does not mean "fake" or "made up" it means that interaction with the environment causes biological changes. That is why he also said all of like is psychosomatic.
     
  9. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member

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    No, it's got nothing to do with you being a woman.

    Are you accusing me of being a sexist?

    Where's your evidence?
     
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  10. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I'd just been critical of that threat post... but then this:

    Why would you even raise that?

    I've been reading bits and pieces about debate in America becoming so caught up in identity politics,'safe places' and so on that people are no longer even trying to address the issues. I had thought that this was probably a fuss over nothing, but some of the discussions on here have gone bad in a weird way recently.

    I agree that 'psychosomatic' can be used in a range of ways and that there's a danger of it being misinterpreted so it's important not to jump the gun, but to me, some of the specifics of his ideas are worrying and unreasonable. @Simon @Bob and @Valentijn have done some lengthier posts on this.
     
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  11. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    Did you write that because he's a man?
     
  12. Flo

    Flo

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    I quote from the blog:
    "The recent incident starting with the Facebook posts of Dr. James Coyne on February 27, 2016, is so outside the realm of reasonable and civil behavior and has affected Jeannette’s health so directly and adversely as to render her physically unable to defend herself at the moment, that I simply cannot stand by and witness this without comment."

    He said "directly".

    I know mental stress effects me. As does stress from chemical exposure.
     
  13. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Shall we just try to draw a line under the threat/sexist accusations?
     
  14. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    Thank you for quoting the quote I quoted. Now please show me how it means that JB's health declined due to emotional and mental stress, rather than an increase in activity that pushed her out of her energy envelope.
     
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  15. Flo

    Flo

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    Just a joke. Should have put a smiley face. It goes to the same point of people needing to be safe from Conye's comments and Walitts speech. It was deep without enough context. Apologies.
     
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  16. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    Yes, quite right, I just couldn't resist being ridiculous. Sorry.
     
  17. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    I have watched some material by Walitt, about fibromyalgia. I think you are misunderstanding Walitt, which is rather easy since he's disguising his psychogenic claims with biology as is in fashion nowadays for these theories. The key message was that fibromyalgia is not a disease, that patients are not sick, but have constructed the concept of fibromyalgia to give a name to ordinary personal problems manifesting as physical symptoms. In his chemobrain paper, the role of biology is reduced only to trigger, much like in the Wessely school model of CFS, the initial infection is only the trigger for false illness beliefs and unhealthy behaviour. Walitt also uses the word somatoform which means mental illness.

    In these psychogenic theories, the biology is only there to make it more acceptable to patients, and to give it a sheen of science. You can see what importance they truly attribute to biology by looking at the treatment. Unless you believe that psychotherapy, positive affirmations, relaxation are just the right answer for fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome and various other poorly understood health problems, you should not support people like Walitt.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
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  18. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    Blimey, we were all joking :lol:
     
  19. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    Really wish people would focus on the issues as opposed to becoming a Kardashian :p
     
  20. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    LOL - I genuinely had no idea.

    Maybe due to my reading too much about people going on about 'safe spaces', identity politics and so on. I'm frightened that I've totally lost touch with the culture of mainstream society.

    UUrgh... I need a break from the internet. Clearly losing it.
     
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