Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Considering flu shot

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by antares4141, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. antares4141

    antares4141 Senior Member

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    Truth or consequences, nm
    Mostly because if I get it I don't want to transmit it to my dad. Curious though, is there any logical way you could make the argument flu would be good for us? If it doesn't kill us that is.

    If the body tries to identify the strain of flu virus inside of it and destroy it, is it possible for cfs if it's a pathogen of any type, (lyme, fungus, EB, etc.) to be identified and destroyed or somehow inactivated by a hyperactive immune system in the process?

    Long shot I know. I think I posted a poll one time on this subject but don't know how to find it.

    How many people have had flu since they contracted CFS? I got CFS in my mid 30's I think my last case of flu was in my early 20's, I'm 58 now.

    Sometimes I wonder if cfs is some kind of hyper immune state already and that is why I haven't gotten it since. Likelihood though is that I am a home body now and don't get the type of exposure to it I might have once gotten.
     
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  2. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    They do not work.
     
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  3. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    This is a tough one, @antares4141. I got a terrible case of the flu over the holidays. It had been years since I got sick.

    I don't get flu shots. My fibro/chronic fatigue doctor doesn't recommend them to his patients with immune problems. He does, however, recommend having a Tamiflu prescription filled and with you at all times to start taking as soon as you get the first symptom. I started taking it about 24 hours after the first symptom, and it didn't really help me, but it did help my husband a lot when he got sick.

    There are also supplements my doctor recommends having on hand such as elderberry as well as others that help immunity. I let myself get caught flatfooted and wasn't prepared with the supplements that might have helped me. Never again!!!

    The topic of whether or not to get a flu shot has been discussed a lot at PR. Some people with the same kinds of immune problems I have get the shot and are fine. Others have really had problems with it.

    You might want to search on flu shot and read some of the other discussions on this topic.
     
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  4. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Just to mention, there has been at least one report on this forum that their ME/CFS was triggered by a flu shot. ME/CFS used to be referred to as CFIDS, with the ID standing for Immune Dysfunction. I think vaccinations are VERY problematic, especially for those with immune dysfunction. I'll never take a chance on them myself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
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  5. RebeccaRe

    RebeccaRe Senior Member

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    I got CFS when I was 18, and the following year I got the flu. I guess that's what happens when you live in a dorm with 500 of your closest friends! I can't remember whether or not I got the vaccine that year.

    I still get my flu vaccine annually because I work with children, and I shudder to think of what the flu would do to me. I've had some problems with the vaccine since becoming sick, though. A few years I've had mild allergic reactions like hives. And then I usually feel very tired and sick for at least a day (and as long as a week) afterward. I know that many people without ME/CFS experience malaise after the flu shot, but it was never a problem for me until I got sick. It sucks, but since I've never had terrible problems I suppose I'd rather take my chances with the vaccine.

    It would be nice to have flu-killing hyperactive ninja immune cells as part of our condition. But because the flu has so many separate strains, I don't think that getting the flu would offer any protection against any other strain or any other illness.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
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  6. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi @RebeccaRe,

    If you feel you must do vaccinations, you may want to consider loading up on Vitamin C in the days before getting it--as much as 5-10 grams today, or to bowel tolerance. Take even more on the day you get it, and then followup up for several days afterward. Liposomal Vit. C would probably be best, and will lower bowel tolerance threshold. I've read several reports of Vitamin C administration being given to children having a severe vaccination reaction, and pulling out of it shortly after taking large amount of Vit. C.

    One of those reports is on THIS LINK...

    Below is one paragraph from that article...

    High dose vitamin C safely prevents and treats vaccine side effects (3). This has been evident in our experience. We watched high dose, saturation level vitamin C bring our daughter back to health after a vaccine reaction. We watched high dose, saturation level vitamin C prevent vaccination side effects. We give both of our children saturation levels of C before, during (yes, right at the doctor's office) and after immunizations. We don't give the amount of vitamin C we think might work; we give enough to get the job done.


     
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  7. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    I sometimes tire of flu shot articles that imply that if you don't get the shot, you are an selfish ignoramus. It's not that clear cut.

    Even the CDC says that if you have a weakened immune system to talk to your doctor about whether to get vaccinated. These flu shot articles I read never bring up this type of information. A lot of us have to think about our health conditions and weigh potential benefit to possible harm when we consider flu shots.
     
  8. antares4141

    antares4141 Senior Member

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    Thanks Perchance, I'll do that. Am a little concerned, not only being made ill short term, but any long term ramifications. I feel I have an obligation not to spread it to my dad. Otherwise I'm a hermit so there would be very little risk of me spreading it to anyone.
     
  9. antares4141

    antares4141 Senior Member

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    I've read about such cases a few times also. I would really prefer not to get one.

    I need a tetanus booster also. Not anxious to get that either. But worry every time I cut myself, especially if I step on a mesquite thorn which are common out here.

    Everyone is told that rusty nails cause tetanus, but it's not so much to do with the nail but how it creates a puncture wound and insert's bacteria deep into your tissue.

    Being in close vicinity to farm animals is another risk. Because I think they carry the bacteria in their guts. And I am surrounded by cattle ranchers. So I'm probably at a little higher risk than most people.
     
  10. antares4141

    antares4141 Senior Member

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    Thanks Rebecca, interesting you got the two conditions so close together. When I first came down with the condition I had a flu like illness I never totally recovered from. But I didn't have if I remember correctly an abnormal temperature. There were also a couple of instances where I got some kind of stomach flu and was really sick that night and all the next day. That was just a few years before the cfs. Sometimes I wonder if there might be some type of connection.
     
  11. antares4141

    antares4141 Senior Member

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    Yes, I used to be antivax, and understand how many feel about them. But have since changed my thinking based on reading a lot of the provax arguments.

    Mainly vaccines arguably have been one of, if not the cheapest and most effective of interventions in preventing disease and suffering.

    Maybe you could argue things such as water and sewage treatment. The discovery of germ theory.

    Without looking them up I don't know for sure which has had a more profound effect on human health.

    So while I am not going to go around saying vaccine's are as safe and effective as the claims that are generally made by authorities, I no longer badmouth them like I used to.

    Even if the safety falls far below what the claims are. I think the risk is far outweighed by the reward in saved lives and the prevention of suffering.
     
  12. maybe some day

    maybe some day Senior Member

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    My wife got one, and she still came down with the flu. She heard that many people got the shot, got the flu this year.
    I dont get the shots..my body has enough problems.
     
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  13. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    I see what you're saying, @antares4141, but for me, it depends on the type of vaccine. I'm not an antivaxer (sp?).

    I'm glad I got the polio vaccine when I was little in the 60s. If I were to travel to a part of the world where malaria or dengue fever vaccines are recommended or required, I would get the vaccine (or, more likely, end up not going and avoid it altogether). I am concerned about the flu vaccine, though, but understand why some people consider it worth the possible risk. It's just not for me.
     
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  14. antares4141

    antares4141 Senior Member

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    It's a crap shoot for the producers of the vaccine, they have to guess ahead of time which strain to manufacture for the upcoming season. I think I read somewhere that even if they get it wrong that the vaccine might provide some benefit still like possible immunity for that strain some time down the road if it does ever become a problem.
     
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  15. kelly8

    kelly8 Senior Member

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    @antares4141 ... i often wonder if all the vaccines i was given as a child primed my immune system for ME. My fatigue stated with an illness in 2008 but before that i had been a sick child. I used to get 3-4 sinus infections yearly for most of my life.

    I know vaccines are made to stimulate your immune system. I think my genetics combined with the vaccinations may have caused a "perfect storm". The illness in 2008 just broke my immune system entirely. I wish that research would be done into how vaccinations affect people later in life. But there is too much money in that industry for them to ever question it.

    I got the flu with the cfs while pregnant in 2015. It sucked but now I'm in better shape because of it. Natural immunity is supposed to be longer term than the vaccinations. I am not planning on vaccinating again because my immune system is messed up enough. I don't need any additional strain on the system.
     
  16. antares4141

    antares4141 Senior Member

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    Were pretty much on the same wavelength, I would prefer to avoid vaccines, and probably would never take one I didn't need, like for instance one for hepatitis. Which I am probably no longer at risk for getting. Flu I would forgo also if it were not for my dad cause he is probably the only person at risk of contracting it from me as much of a hermit as I am.

    Sorry if I it seemed like I implied you were antivax, wasn't my intent.

    Intent was just to point out that in many cases the benefit's (probably as far as I can tell) far outweigh the risks.
     
  17. antares4141

    antares4141 Senior Member

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    Thanks kelly8, that is what I am curious about if people with cfs get flu as often as the general population and how that affects the condition if at all. Or in other words could the hyper immune state of having the flu somehow help to cause the CFS to go somewhat into remission.
     
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  18. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    I can only recall ever having 1 flu and that one was the one that sent me into full blown severe ME. I know who gave this flu too me as well, he had the aching bones that I had with it. I had never experienced a flu like this. My mild ME onset was more cold-like or some strain of cold virus that was enough to trigger a ME onset.

    So, yeah, I seem to be one of those that don't really get flu often. I haven't had one since my severe onset flu. Hoping I never experience one again because I hate to think what it would do to me next time.

    I choose not to take the flu vaccination. I've never had one. My mother had a bad reaction to it a few years ago after having no problems with it years previous. She was bedridden with vertigo for six weeks and went deaf in one ear.

    I have never felt the flu vaccination was for me and now that my mother has reacted to it I think I should definitely stay clear of it.

    Your a lovely son to care for your father's well being. I worry for my mother getting a flu as well. She had pneumonia a few months ago and pulled through thankfully but she was so sick.

    Like you, I take a risk with the tetanus shot and have had it twice in the last 20 years while having ME and haven't had any problems with that one, for now. But I definitely can't take the risk with the flu shot.
     
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  19. hangininthere

    hangininthere

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    I don't get sick anymore ever since my CFS got way worse at age 45, which was 20 years ago.

    I got CFS at age 18 in 1971, after the flu/bronchitis, and never regained my strength. After sleeping non-stop the first two years, could then do normal daily activities with great fatigue and laying down in between activities, never sitting up when I didn't have to. (Couldn't hold down a job, though). In adulthood, I got bad bronchitis every autumn and spring like clockwork.

    But ever since my CFS became severe, causing me to be bedridden the past 20 years, I've only been sick twice - a bad flu and a bad head cold - and that was after taking L-Glutathione supplement each time right before I got sick. I think it must have 'normalized' my suspected 'overactive immune system' and let me get sick. I'm afraid to take the L-Glutathione anymore, even though it helped my brain fog and I felt a bit better on it.

    Me, hubby, and son who lives with us are all three shut-ins, but me and hub get to grocery store and appointments about once a week - plenty of chances to pick up flu germs and bring them home. It can be on an item from the store, too, such as a can of food if someone with the flu sneezed on the can. We all three got a real bad flu at the exact same time, on the same day, a year ago. Normally, none of us get sick.

    I myself am afraid to mess with my immune system, so am afraid to get the flu shot or other of the newer vaccines, and never have and won't. Hub and son don't get the vaccines, either.

    I consider flu vaccines to be hit or miss. For example, during the 2014 - 2015 flu season, the flu vaccine that season was less than 20% effective in protecting against influenza infection. This year, I've read that the flu vaccine is only 10% effective.

    I'm thankful for the polio vaccines and other vaccines that have almost a 100% success rate, though.

    These are the vaccines I believe truly work. (On the list "Haemophilus influenzae type b, invasive" is not a flu, but a bacterial infection)

    https://www.niaid.nih.gov/research/vaccine-benefits

    I suspect CFS is a life-long virus that the immune system can't get rid of, just like the immune system is no match for HIV.

    My ex-mother-in-law had a successful improvement in her CFS when she took the antiviral Amantadine. She took it for years, it kept her up and going like normal, as long as she took it every day. I tried it but had an intolerable side-effect the first week so had to discontinue it. I was so hopeful, alas.

    Patti
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  20. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    My nutritionist said that if you do get a flu shot, make sure it is a single-dose vial and is thimerosal free.
     

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