The Power and Pitfalls of Omics: George Davey Smith’s storming talk at ME/CFS conference
Read about the talk that stole the show at a recent ME/CFS conference in Simon McGrath's two-part blog.
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Complimentary Therapies on the NHS

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by ChrisD, May 29, 2017.

  1. ChrisD

    ChrisD Senior Member

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    Over the course of the last year, I have found various complimentary therapies like Physio, Massage, Acupuncture and Chiropractic to be vital in managing and improving my symptoms. I know that many others find this to be the case too, but should we really be paying for these? Or is it an opportunity for the NHS and their lack of answers to support people in a therapeutic way and atleast help people on the path to recovery?
     
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    There's a path to recovery?
     
  3. ChrisD

    ChrisD Senior Member

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    @Valentijn Well only in the sense that if we can control symptoms then the body can be in a position to 'Heal', but maybe this is an optimistic view and it is more like taming the beast
     
  4. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    follow the yellow-brick road
     
  5. wdb

    wdb Senior Member

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    How would you propose the NHS decides which therapies it covers and which it doesn't, should I be able to get any of these paid for if I believed it helped ?
     
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  6. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Do I have to sing? :whistle:
     
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  7. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    This might be helpful:

    http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/compleme.../complementary-alternative-medicines.aspx#nhs

    I'm afraid I think you should.

    Oh please don't tempt them.

    It's annoying enough that the NHS and their lack of answers are helping us on the path to recovery with CBT and GET, I wouldn't want to give them the opportunity to foist a wider range of unproven belief systems upon patients.

    What if the NHS realises that packing people off to homeopaths and reiki practitioners could be another cheap way of getting rid of annoying patients? If they're allowed to offer such treatments, which will initially be wrapped up as "responding to patient choice" of course, it will only be a matter of time before hopi ear candles become the recommended treatment for a broken leg (all they have to do is throw 5 million quid at some quack bent on a knighthood to get a study published in the Lancet proving efficacy) and employers and insurance companies will be threatening non-believers who have been coughing up blood lately with financial consequences if they don't attend bio-resonance therapy sessions. No thanks.
     
  8. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member

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    Ages ago I went to the doctor about my two numb fingers on my left hand. He promptly told me this was a "trapped nerve" and suggested that there was nothing that could be done. I went to a chiropractor based on this diagnosis a few times. The last time I went I was thinking as I was parked in my car outside the office, this really is not working, my fingers are still numb or even worse and I'm £250 lighter. As I was contemplating whether I should be going in again, a car going at speed swerved to avoid a pedestrian and crashed into my car. I went home after I sorted out the insurance and had a mild case of whiplash for my troubles. I didn't go to the chiropractor again.

    Forward wind to today and I have completely numb hands and feet due to the nerve damage from long standing folate deficiency. Well that's my self diagnosis from what I can deduce.

    I would prefer the NHS saved their money for the most appropriate GP training and appropriate blood tests.

    I might be biased based on the fact that I find massages and the like a chronic invasion of my personal space and so don't ever find them relaxing.
     
  9. hellytheelephant

    hellytheelephant Senior Member

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    As far as NHS provision goes,It depends on what you have wrong with you...and where you live. For example our county cancer centre provides free counselling, aromatherapy, reflexology, EFT and Indian Head Massage and Yoga.

    I know from being on a chronic pain forum that some pain clinics offer similar- our local one was shi*te and their basic ethos was a thinly disguised version of 'get over yourself' which just wasn't helpful.

    As for the road to recovery...I think many of us see it more as a river with a strong current which carries us along whilst we try to keep our heads above the water ;)
     
  10. ChrisD

    ChrisD Senior Member

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    From the responses I have become aware that I am very much only speaking from my own experience and have to clarify that I am not painting all situations with the same brush. I have moderate CFS with Fibromyalgia symptoms too and find particularly acupuncture to be very relieving in helping pain and stiffness and slightly increasing energy levels. Chiropractic and Physio also help to relieve residual pain and increase my energy slightly, but this is all temporary and acts as management rather than a treatment. I have also tried GET and found that it made me feel worse and increased symptoms, the whole principle of it is totally illogical. So what I am saying is that by comparison, these therapies seem much more appropriate as managements, I am not sure of the costs but when you think that CBT could cost the NHS £60 an hour whereas a community acupuncture session of 30 mins costs £10 (in my area) and the latter is much more of a relief to my body and nervous system.

    I do understand that people with the more severe subset of ME/CFS, can find these therapies to worsen their symptoms so I am not suggesting it for everybody. @wdb That list quite obviously ranges from the absurd and ridiculous (Coin rubbing) to treatments that not only anecdotally but have evidence based symptom relief, like acupuncture. Again @TiredSam Reiki and Homeopathy are not the treatments that I have quoted, so that's a bit overboard, on the NHS clinical trials section there are trials for acupuncture and yoga as management so this is not totally irrational on my part.

    I do firmly believe that ME/CFS is a viral/bacterial/chronic infection of some kind and would never dissuade the NHS from improving funding towards a REAL cure for this illness using biological research. But what I feel strongly is that the patient experience for new sufferers could be improved by not fobbing them off with the guilt of having 'caused' their own illness and being presented with the unobtainable task of GET recovery. Instead they could take a patient with the sudden onset of symptoms, who is crippled by pain and fatigue amongst many other symptoms and provide them with an initial treatment that may lead to atleast a little bit of relief in the absence of the correct Antibiotic/Antiviral/Immunotherapy drug or whatever it may be.

    @hellytheelephant Road to recovery was definitely the wrong expression to use! To correct myself, I should say; a bit of support whilst on the endless rollercoaster ride from hell!
     
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  11. wdb

    wdb Senior Member

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    At least we can all agree on coin rubbing :lol: and that evidence of effectiveness is somewhat important, we just slightly disagree on which treatments meet that threshold, for me acupuncture does not outperform placebo by enough to justify NHS funding.
     
  12. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    You left out other important variables such as what the coin's woth as well as size, no two out of threes, if a wind is blowing and if you spit on the coin before tossing it. Otherwise, you're spot on!.

    There's a real problem in the states as far as alternative therapies creeping into traditional medical institutions. Not because they're science based but because of money.

    I have a doctor's* appointment so will come back and add some references about this.

    Fortunately, my doctor doesn't use the coin medicine. However her nurse practitioner is a shaman.:D
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
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  13. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    What's a sha?
     
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  14. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    It's what I have in the morning before getting dressed, darling :D
     
  15. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    A religious leader who rules Iran.

    A cloth worn around the shoulders.

    Pronunciation of "sure" in the southern states in the US.

    What @slysaint said.

    So a southerner might say, sha I took a sha this morning. Then I put on my sha.

    I could go on but I won't! :rolleyes:
     
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  16. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    I'm not uo to posting the information I mentioned above. However, you can find a lot of info and outside references in the Science Based Medicine blog.
     
  17. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    The Science Based Medicine blog is NOT a reputable source of information.

    I have read diatribes heavily criticizing many treatment modalities on that site that are well researched and effective. Its actually a running joke with many patients I know that if Science Based Medicine hates it, its a ringing endorsement for doing it.
     
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  18. wdb

    wdb Senior Member

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    Could you provide some examples so that we can verify if this is true ?
     
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  19. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Valentijn likes this.
  20. PhoenixDown

    PhoenixDown Senior Member

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    Every time you tell a doctor you improved with CAM, you're feeding in to their belief that ME/CFS is all psychosomatic/somatizing/MUS/in your head. This belief harms patients everywhere.
     
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