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No Longer Naive in the Ways of The Beast
After having lived for years with ME/CFS, Jody Smith learned there's more to this beast of an illness than she realized, and that what might help one person may not help others ...
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Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements!

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Hip, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    That is a very plausible theory. Bravo!

    I also wanted to add, that free-form gltuamates are in abundance in almost all processed food.
    Russell Blaylock has a great presentation on it here:

    Again, I will ask, what is causing Mast Cell activation?

    I think I am inclined to agree with Hip, that the cause is most likely all manner of pathogens. I would also add that using the Yasko multi-factorial approach, there are numerous environmental toxins and genetic defects creating a pre-existing overburden on the immune system. Once those underlying fundamentals are effectively dealt with the body can take care of the pathogens. The pathogens merely being the straw that broke the camels back.

    That being said, what are some of the best ways to arm the body against pathogens? I picked myself up some NAG today, perhaps it will help buff my 1st line of defense against these insidious pathogens.
    xrayspex likes this.
  2. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Have a look at the Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators section of this PR forum. Have you been tested for all the viruses and bacteria normally associated with ME/CFS?
  3. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    At present, I would say that it is probably impossible to fully determine all the causes behind mast cell activation. However, being diagnosed with mast cell activation syndrome, instead of the black hole known has ME/CFS, will greatly increase people's chances of getting appropriate treatment. After one is diagnosed with MCAS then maybe one should start a process of finding out why. Meanwhile, one can still do something about the MCAS problem, treatment-wise.
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Nanonug, do you think it is an idea to do empirical testing of mast cell activation syndrome: that is to say, by experimentally taking a mast cell inhibitor drug like ketotifen, and seeing if symptoms abate?

    Have you tried any mast cell inhibitors yourself and got results?
  5. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    If anyone knows: is it safe to take 1500 mg NAG twice a day? I took 750 mg twice today. I am using Jarrow which is 750 mg per capsule. I might try 1-1/2 capsules but I am curious about trying two at once. I think it had some effect. I think it helps one type of anxiety and not others that I get. Now I need to try it with tumeric.
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    N-acetyl-glucosamine seems to be a very safe supplement: rat studies have shown it is non-toxic even in daily doses as high as 2323 mg per kg of body weight (equivalent to taking 174 grams of NAG per day for a 75 kg man). Ref: here.

    I have tried 4 x Jarrow 750 mg capsules, but in my case found no extra benefit in this over taking just 2 x Jarrow 750 mg capsules.
    Gestalt likes this.
  7. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

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  8. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

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    I don't know if this is true or not but I I once heard that there are more neurotransmitters in the gut than in the brain..........it would make sense if you helped any gut inflammation (which the n acetyl glutamine would do) as well as the other supplements .........it would also help the brain..........there is definitely a gut brain connection. Thanks for the post...........my mom has been experiencing terrible anxiety problems..........I'll share your experience with her.
  9. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

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    I found Stablon (tianeptine) to be a great anxiolytic. After i contracted cfs my anxiety was runaway. A problem i had never had before.
    Stablon lessened it greatly.

    Its been used for IBS,
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22679908
    PTSD,
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21963693
    Asthma
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21963693

    I dont really understand excitotoxicity, but this holds some interest,
    http://www.tianeptine.com/

    "At the molecular level, tianeptine exerts profound effects on the glutamate system. The amino acid glutamate serves as the main excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain. Its excitatory action is mediated by via multiple receptor subtypes. The three main subtypes of glutamate-gated ion channel are kainate, ampa, and N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA). Tianeptine prevents overstimulation of AMPA/kainate type glutamate receptors in the hippocampus that regulate Ca2+ entry into the nerve cell; excess Ca2+ entry into nerve cells is toxic. Tianeptine also modulates the NMDA glutamate receptors. NMDA receptors for glutamate play a critical role in mediating the functional and intracellular effects of stress."

    And this from Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity
    Increased extracellular glutamate levels leads to the activation of Ca2+ permeable AMPA receptors on myelin sheaths and oligodendrocytes, leaving oligodendrocytes susceptible to Ca2+ influxes and subsequent excitotoxicity. [14] [15] 16] Another damaging result of excess calcium in the cytosol is the opening of the mitochondrial permeability transition pore, a pore in the membranes of mitochondria that opens when the organelles absorb too much calcium. Opening of the pore may cause mitochondria to swell and release reactive oxygen species and other proteins that can lead to apoptosis. The pore can also cause mitochondria to release more calcium. In addition, production of adenosine triphosphate (ATP) may be stopped, and ATP synthase may in fact begin hydrolysing ATP instead of producing it.[17]

    Its naughty to make deductions... so maybe someone could tell me if tianeptine, (as a modified tricyclic and calcium channel blocker(?)) has some antihistamine or mast cell stabilizing effect?

    I can say that I made a partial recovery from cfs while i was on the recommended dosage, though i attributed this to other factors. Gupta programme and diet changes. Now i am starting to wonder.
    When i felt better i halved the dose. I have since relapsed. but with a million myriad factors it is hard pinpoint
    anything.

    Its not FDA or TGA (oz) approved, so i get it on the net from Turkey or India. Apparently you can get it over the
    counter, quite cheaply, in Europe. (Groan)
    hanzsolo likes this.
  10. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

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    Chronic administration of tianeptine balances lipopolysaccharide-induced expression of cytokines in the spleen and hypothalamus of rats. http://65.54.113.26/Publication/357...saccharide-induced-expression-of-cytokines-in

    This might help as well? (IF youre a rodent). Ive heard that lipopolysaccharides is nasty endotoxic stuff.

    All in all, tianeptine might be a useful cfs moderator, without curing it.
    It has bugger all side effects if taken by a beaverfury
    xrayspex likes this.
  11. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Just to tell that I ordered these supplements in iHerb and I am trying your protocol. I started yesterday and will keep you informed. I decided to try it because I have suffered awful anxiety (GAD, Panic attacks, insomnia...) for 35 years and at the same time I suffer awful sinusitis-like symptoms for 15 years. After 15 years of hundreds of tests (x-ray, MRI, CT scans...) I was never found sinus infection. Doctors think it is related to my severe dysautonomia, CFS and respiratory system hyperreactivity including asthma-like (not real asthma), allergies-like (not real allergies) condition.

    This is what I am taking:

    - Jarrow N.A.G 750 mg 3xday (2,250 mg/day): http://goo.gl/fWQyC
    - Organic Flax Seed Oil 1 spoon x day (15 ml): http://goo.gl/W5I2R
    - Organic Root Turmeric 2 half teaspoons x day (approx 3000 mg I estimate): http://goo.gl/hGsnj

    I will let you know. So far I feel nothing after one day and a half.

    Regards.
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Hi MNC

    I myself found the effect of these supplements kicked pretty immediately, so it is not encouraging that you have no benefits after a day and a half. However, I guess there is no harm in trying them for longer, to see if any anxiolytic effects do appear.

    It is also a good idea to stop these supplements for a few days, to see if you feel worse. I find that you often notice the benefits more when you discontinue a supplement and experience the return of symptoms.
  13. hanzsolo

    hanzsolo

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    Hi all,

    Thanks so much for the extensive list of things to help anxiety etc ..
    Very much appreciated..

    I have suffered from anxiety for many years, and also have ulcerative colitis. So am very interested in trying the top 3 items on your list.

    I have a question regarding the turmeric ..

    I noticed that a lot of the products on the market are either curcumin or turmeric extract with varying potency.

    i had already purchased Life Extension curcumin BCM-95 a little while back but never took it.
    Would it be ok to take this one ? Apparently it contains some of the other compounds from turmeric..

    It's 400mg but they said its equivalent to 6-7x that amount due to absorption etc.. Seems like a high amount in one dose, no ??

    If not, what would be a good brand to take ?

    Thanks in advance and have a great weekend
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Curcumin is one of the main active ingredients of turmeric, but in my testing I found turmeric had anti-anxiety and anti-inflammatory benefits that curcumin alone did not have. So some of the other active ingredients of turmeric must be important too.

    See also this earlier post in this thread.

    Curcumin is a good NF-kB and COX-2 inhibitor, though, and both NF-kB inhibitors and COX-2 inhibitors can reduce inflammation, so pure curcumin is also useful to take, but no substitute for turmeric, in my personal experience / testing.

    A cheap way of obtaining turmeric is in an Asian grocery store, where you can often buy a large bag of turmeric powder for very little. A dose of 1000 mg of turmeric powder corresponds to around half of a level teaspoon.
    jace likes this.
  15. hanzsolo

    hanzsolo

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    Hi and thanks very much for the reply...

    I saw the earlier posting but as I said, the curcumin compound from LEF contains some of the other curcuminoids from turmeric.

    In any case, I have turmeric powder here as well, and actually prefer to use the powder so that I know exactly how much I'm getting. Not to mention the additional benefits of turmeric as you said.

    How do you eat the powder ? Do you mix it with something ?? Any ideas ?
    Also do you think it will irritate my colitis or stomach ?

    Thanks again
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I just put the ½ level teaspoon of powder directly in my mouth, drink some water and swallow. The taste is very mild and you hardly notice it.

    I have IBS and found 1000 mg of turmeric twice daily was beneficial for my IBS (turmeric is known to help IBS), so it may be beneficial for colitis too. Check Google.

    However, when I experimented with higher doses of 4000 mg turmeric I found that this irritated and upset my stomach. So dose is important. Very high doses of turmeric taken for extended time periods have been known to cause stomach ulcers, but low doses I understand are completely safe.
    hanzsolo likes this.
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Incidentally, I am currently writing up some more detailed information on using the various alternative anti-anxiety supplements and drugs listed on the first page of this thread. I will include some info on the biochemistry of generalized anxiety disorder, in an attempt to provide some explanatory context for how and why these supplements are able to treat anxiety disorder symptoms. I will post info this in a new thread on treating anxiety, coming soon. (Lots of brain fog at the moment, so writing takes time).
    hanzsolo likes this.
  18. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    I currently take 3 caps of this product a day, with food. It makes a big difference for me.

    Longvida, which I just ordered today to test it out, appears to be the very best money can buy right now.
    hanzsolo likes this.
  19. hanzsolo

    hanzsolo

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    Just wanted to update;

    I tried a half teaspoon of ground turmeric root late yesterday afternoon (as suggested) and noticed a significant reduction in anxiety plus a nice mood lift. Whereas when I tried the LEF brand (with apparently much more curcumin), it seemed to increase my heart rate and make me somewhat agitated. Of course YMMV but for me, the powder seems to work best (so far).. I will continue to test the powder (and keep you updated on my progress)...

    A few more questions :)
    1. At what time should I take the second dose of turmeric ? I heard some say the half life is 4-5 hours, so would early afternoon be a good time ??
    2. Do you recommend I mix the turmeric powder with oil for better absorption ? And if yes, possibly linden oil ?
    3. What else would you recommend from your list as an adjunct to the turmeric for anxiety, mood and focus ? I am already taking the NAG, so possibly the flax oil ? And/Or something else
    4. Would I need to cycle usage of the turmeric (every few days, weeks) to maintain the mood lifting and anxiety lowering effects (tolerance related issues) ??

    Thanks again to the OP and everyone for your feedback and support !!!
    There are many studies on turmeric and ulcerative colitis..

    Have a great weekend
  20. hanzsolo

    hanzsolo

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    I am looking forward to this, thanks

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