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Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements!

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Hip, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @123pdeme
    Let us know how your tests with NAG work. Note that it is flaxseed oil, not flaxseeds, that that you want.

    I myself have constant mucous in my nose and throat, and this symptom began soon after I contracted a sore throat virus. This virus would I caught not go away, like a normal throat virus usually does, and after a while it started causing symptoms of severe anxiety, as well as the chronic nasal mucous production. See my website here for more details about this virus and the symptoms it precipitated (not everyone gets all the symptoms). It is quite possible that this or a similar virus is causing your mucous symptoms. Though tests from your doctor are unlikely to find any viral infection in the nose.

    Ultimately, the inflammation that I believe is behind the anxiety disorder symptoms is itself likely caused by one or more infections in the body. Since many infectious microbes cannot be eliminated, the next best thing in terms of treatment is to reduce the inflammation they generate. And that is what many of the supplements detailed in the thread achieve.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
    kakrpa likes this.
  2. 123pdeme

    123pdeme

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    Thanks for your reply. I have noticed that everytime I go to the gym and do a heavy workout I get forehead acne and I feel completely exhausted and hyper anxious. I really believe inflammation is a strong factor in my anxiety. I'm going to improve my diet and incorporate the main supplements you recommend. Please see this forum where I found other people are having positive results, well one person, but it's still useful I hope :) >

    http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20131226/msgs/1057114.html

    NAG is something that has zero research on mood and anxiety that I can see, so we have to go with anecdotal reports for now.
     
  3. qbsbrown

    qbsbrown

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    Is there a particular brand of grape seed extract that you recommend (and what mg they make it in)? Also, does it differ greatly from plain old grape seed? Thanks!
     
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I don't think there is any supplement called grape seed, it is generally called grape seed extract (GSE).

    I found you really need quite a high doses of grape seed extract — around 500 mg once daily — to have a good anti-anxiety effect; but most supplements tend have around 100 mg per capsule, so they would work out quite uneconomical. However, NOW Foods do a GSE with 250 mg per capsules, so this is a good choice:

    Now Grape Seed Extract 250 mg Mega Potency

    Note: don't confuse grape seed extract with grapefruit seed extract.
     
  5. missionimpossible

    missionimpossible

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    This is my first post. First of all, thank you Hip for all your great work, and for trying to help others. Your posts give me hope. Right now i am going through klonopin withdrawal. so sorry my thoughts are very cloudy and disorganised.

    I want to tell a little about myself. I am 28. I believe my csf started due to a virus infection. But my case is little different. As a kid ( 4-7 yrs) i had very bad cough. It would get severe at night. It would last for 2-3 hours at a time, disrupting my sleep. After that it stopped.Around 13 years age, i started having constant runny nose, specially in cold weather. Then it got better. 4-5yrs later it turned in to chronic sinusitis, constant stuffy nose, but no cough. I used to get frequent throat infections, which will reduce only with a course of antibiotics. But in 2 weeks it comes back again.

    I also had a constant anxiety as far as i remember, even as a child. Becoming severe at adolescence. It is constant generalised and social anxiety. I get irritated with people, anger, difficult maintaining eye contact. I am more conscious of my body like while walking, slight balance problems, awkwardness, sensitivity to noise and sound. social situations drain me. I need some rest to recoup afterwards. Slight ADHD, which started recently. Low grade muscle pains in the evening. I also have anhedonia.

    I have tried every SSRI, tricyclic, antipsychotics, nothing works. ssri make me more stimulated. Benzos are the only drugs which worked for me. The first time i took klonopin (very low dose 0.25mg), that was when i knew what normal people feel like. But they worked only for few months. Due to tolerance, they stopped working.

    Apart from klonopin, only thing which has worked is FLAX SEED OIL--- It reduced my anxiety by 35%, which is very huge for me considering my anxiety.
    Also TURMERIC works, but i took low dose.
    And i have tried AMISULPRIDE(12.5mg), it really helps with sensory overload and ADHD . It feels like i have stuffed some cotton in my ears.

    Right now i have stopped all supplements, my stomach is very sensitive from withdrawal, i am praying for this to be over, so that i can try other supplements, that you recommend.

    I think i got the virus from my mother. She often has Stomach issues, irritable bowel, allergies and slight anxiety.

    Sorry this has gone long. Just wanted to share more details.

    @Hip what is your opinion about my condition? Can it be the same virus that you talk about? Can entero virus cause cough in children? Since i contracted this virus early( may be at birth) is it possible my symptoms are more severe than others?

    thank you once again.
     
    MeSci likes this.
  6. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Your symptoms all sound very familiar to me, and my own problems have been dramatically improved by a leaky gut diet and supplements as described in my posts here and here and in my profile. Many people have reported similar improvements.

    Sometimes cutting things out can be more effective than adding things!
     
    missionimpossible likes this.
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Absolutely! I forget to mention that my first real gains in a horrifically overactive nervous system was eliminating gluten and dairy. 3 days later things calmed. The other benefits followed with the mineral supplementation, and finally, B12/folate.
     
    MeSci likes this.
  8. qbsbrown

    qbsbrown

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    Thanks Hip! I will give the grape seed a try. I found it SO bizarre that the first and only thing ever that greatly helped my ocd/borderline psychosis was an over the counter anti inflammatory i took in brazil. I've also found some relief from aleve and possibly ibuprofen as well. For sure some sort of crazy inflammation going on. i was initially dxed with MS, then i was treated for lyme for a year of antibiotics. Then a consensus from a serious of neurologists and infectious disease drs was that i had/have some sort of crazy virus that they don't know what it is. So all have been perplexed for 5 years
     
  9. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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  10. missionimpossible

    missionimpossible

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    @MeSci Thank you for taking the time to reply.

    I have made some changes in diet like juicing and avoiding junk food.But i still eat lot of grains and dairy products. I will try the leaky gut diet that you recommend. Can you tell the supplements which particularly benefit leaky gut ? I am so glad to find this site.:)
     
    MeSci likes this.
  11. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    It's not really possible to say, but there are dozens of infections that can cause mental symptoms.
     
    missionimpossible likes this.
  12. missionimpossible

    missionimpossible

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    @Hip I will slowly try the supplements you mentioned, noting down my symptoms. I will update you if i find more improvements in my condition. thank you
     
  13. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I can't remember which supplements I take specifically for leaky gut except l-glutamine. Zinc is also recommended, but I don't take any zinc other than what I get in my diet and multivitamin and mineral supplements. N-acetyl cysteine is also recommended in this paper but it didn't feel right for me after trying it for a few days. Different things seem to suit different people.

    There is a whole section on leaky gut here where you will find other suggestions.
     
  14. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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  15. 123pdeme

    123pdeme

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    Hi Hip and everyone. I've now received NAG. I don't have Turmeric or Flax Oil yet.

    1. Firstly I wanted to ask about Turmeric. I've read that it's possible it can contain lead contamination, and if I buy Turmeric powder it should be bright yellow not dull orange. I'm in the UK, I've found it difficult to source Turmeric where I can be satisfied it doesn't contain any contaminants. For the past 18 months I've also started get acne or possibly it's an allergy where I get raised red bumps on my forehead. I found some interesting information regarding NAG and Acne/Allergies, which you might well already know of >

    http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/201527-food-allergies-lectins-and-n-acetyl-glucosamine/

    Topical Usage >

    http://www.neostratapro.com/images/neostratapro/en_us/local/landing/neoglucosamine_bpo_acne.pdf

    I'm about to test NAG on its own, and it's easy to obtain high quality Flax Oil. I've only seen one study from 1980 where Flax Oil was tested in a small group of Agoraphobics and it improved their condition.

    2. I'm reasonably sure the GAD/Agoraphobic symptoms are suffer from are caused by inflammation. The reasons are:

    Allergy/Acne spots
    Severe mucous production
    Prostatitis - now in remission

    Do you have any views/opinions on Omega 3 with regard to ALA/DHA/EPA and those forms impact on anxiety conditions? I have read that quite a few people notice more irritation/anxiety after consuming fish oil. There's also dispute regarding how much ALA is enzyme converted to EPA/DHA.

    http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com...enough-for-EPA-DPA-levels-for-non-fish-eaters

    3. I have read some research regarding prebiotics namely Galacto-Ogliosaccharides as an anxiolytic agent. Very interesting as BDNF, NDMA and D-Serine are implicated in fear extinction and fear memory retention.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24140431

    The only current reliable commercial source of this prebiotic is Bimuno which I bought in Boots in powdered form.

    Yakult are supposed to be producing it soon >

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactooligosaccharide

    Also please note the variant forms of this prebiotic based on the chain linkages > "there are differences also in the linkages of the oligosaccharide chain due to the different enzymes used in their production. This can have a direct impact on their potential to affect host's physiology and health" Although there isn't any reference to studies which can give evidence to this.

    4. Lastly there is the psychological effect of our ill health. I believe I have found the answers to help us cope effectively >

    a.) The science of why we get stressed and why we're programmed to be stressed and what we can do about it >



    b.) Free course on The Neuroscience of Reframing (she references the work/science of the Doctor mentioned above, the scientific name is Cognitive Reappraisal) >

    https://www.udemy.com/the-neuroscience-of-reframing-and-how-to-do-it/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_reappraisal

    c.) The Chimp Paradox (This book is amazing, and Dr Steve Peters has helped many sports people to great success) >
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Chimp-Paradox-Management-Confidence/dp/009193558X

    d.) FREE COURSE : Everyday Mind Mastery (Exceptionally simply, but uniquely powerful, learn what The Script is and how it hold us back in life) >

    https://www.udemy.com/everyday-mind-mastery/

    Now I'm not preaching, I'm offering information which I believe to be helpful. Please have an open mind when reading it, there's no manual for life but I feel once you read The Chimp Paradox and learn about The Script (Everyday Mind Mastery), which is another way of naming the self protective paranoid inner thoughts which hold us back, you'll have a revelation. We can never get rid of The Chimp/The Script, but once we recognise it and what it does, we have a really powerful way of improving our lives and how we interact with others.

    All the above information I've given are based on solid research/science, they're not hippy mumbo jumbo, and if you give them a chance you'll actually see they can work, this doesn't mean we won't struggle at times, there's no miracle cures, but it's gives us a beautiful way of coping. It is hard to suggest information and for people to digest it or possibly dismiss it. I hope you'll give it a chance.

    I want everyone to get better and heal from our conditions. I hope you'll read what I've posted with interest and give it a chance.

    Thanks

    Phil :)
     
    SquidProQuo and Gestalt like this.
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @123pdeme
    Prebiotics I find have good anxiolytic properties, and a few years ago, when I had very bad IBS (a bowel condition which can often cause anxiety symptoms as a secondary effect), I found prebiotics very good at reducing my anxiety levels. I posted some info on prebiotics here.

    Galacto-ogliosaccharides (GOS) was the best prebiotic I found, but it is expensive, so I switched to inulin, which you can buy quite cheaply in bulk powder form. Interesting link you provided about prebiotics like GOS increasing BDNF. I am currently experimenting with a largely unknown, different class of prebiotic called resistant starch. Reasonably good results so far.


    I have not found fish oil to provide any anti-anxiety benefits, though I find fish oil does have a useful antidepressant effect. The anti-anxiety effects of flaxseed oil I think come from its alpha linolenic acid (ALA) content. Wikipedia says:

    I think psychological and mind therapies are certainly worth pursuing, in combination with the anti-anxiety medications, if your symptoms are limited to say just generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) which is not too severe. I previously had a lot interest in meditation, yoga, and various mind development ideas and practices.

    However, in cases of severe GAD, I doubt if such mind therapies are going help. It would be like trying to get a beach wind break to protect you from a hurricane. Severe GAD hits your mind like a hurricane.
     
  17. 123pdeme

    123pdeme

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    I'm using a product called Bimuno which provides 52% Galacto-Ogliosaccharides. Anyway I sure know what GAD is, the reason I decided to post on here is because the GAD, I don't say my GAD because it's not mine, I don't want it/own it :) anyway the GAD got very severe after I started a gym program I also broke out in forehead acne, so this showed me that my body or possibly my eating just wasn't up to scratch. It just got ridiculously intense and I'd had a period of reasonable calm for quite some months.

    Here's what I want to ask though. Where can I get Turmeric powder in the UK which doesn't have heavy metal contaminents such as Lead, or can you suggest any brand of Turmeric? I see plenty that say USDA certified, but anyone can stick a label on a bunch of Turmeric powder. Also I've read the colour should be bright yellow and not deep orange, which denotes the quality. I've read that plenty of spices from the far east can contain lead contamination.

    I'm currently only just started on Jarrow NAG. I got 750mg felt good, took another 750mg and there was some GAD returning. I'm kind of up and down with GAD atm, I don't know whether I will be calm or not day to day at present. This morning the GAD was fairly strong and by the afternoon it had dropped off significantly.

    Also have you ever seen this site (see link below), there's a very interesting comparison between the symptoms of GAD and Bipolar II, which suggests effect therapy for BPII could should work for GAD. I'm diagnosed with GAD but I think I fall under the criteria for BPII.

    http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/GAD&BPII.htm

    Anyway if would be really helpful for myself and others if you could consider my concern regarding Turmeric contamination. Thanks so much for your replies to my posts.

    Regards

    Phil
     
  18. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    @123pdeme & @Hip

    I have been using Bimuno as well, in addition to Resistant Starch. There were a few days after using it that I had remarkably less nervous system activation/anxiety and I believe this was do to shifts in the gut biome. 95% of the body's serotonin is produced by gut bacteria and B.Infantis specifically is known to be important in this respect.

    In various studies researches also found out that stress can adversely affect gut bacteria, so there can be a negative feedback cycle of sorts where anxiety can beget more anxiety by shifting bacterial homeostasis in the gut through psychological stress induced hormonal shifts which affect the gut biome. I assume the reverse would also be true where positive feelings have a positive effect on the gut inhabitants.

    The following paper summarizes much of the mind altering behaviour of gut microbiota: http://www.ucc.ie/en/cns/news/newsarchive2012/Mind-alteringmicroorganisms.pdf

    What I find interesting about NAG is that it composes parts of bacterial cell walls.

    I find this interesting because Glucosamine by itself has shown to have prebiotic effects by increasing SCFA's in the gut.
    [​IMG]
    http://caloriesproper.com/?p=4488


    NAG is an amide between glucosamine and acetic acid.

    Acetic acid is also one of the main byproducts of fermentation of prebiotics by the bacterial Clostridium species.

    Glucosamine can also be created by the fermentation of grains such as corn and wheat.

    What I am trying to get at is perhaps provided the right substrates and proper species you can create a NAG factory in your gut. How cool is that. Just like bifido acts as a serotonin and methylation factory as well.

    @123pdeme I am really interested in some of the psychology based links you posted. I shall check them out.

    Personally I have found the work of Gabor Mate really helpful in this respect. He really gets into the cross between psychology and chronic illness.

    ---> Click here: https://vimeo.com/55416414 <----

    Check out his work by watching the above link.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  19. JES

    JES

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    I have experimented a lot with probiotics (and prebiotics as well) over the last year. They seem like a promising way to modulate the immune system. I don't believe so much in the bacterial colonization theory, as the effect stops for me within 2-3 days after stopping probiotics. But articles like the above linked are very interesting...

    The problem I have with probiotics is that 90% of the products, at least in my country, are a mix of the same old strains (l acidophilus, casei, etc). The problem is that despite what the manufacturer claims, many of these strains are not anti-inflammatory, but can actually be pro-inflammatory. This is a bad thing for most CFS sufferers. My immune system and thus anxiety seems to go up to crazy levels on some probiotics. The second problem is that I can hardly find products with single strains, despite some studies that a single strain probiotic can actually alter the gut flora better.

    Few days ago I started using a product named Align, containing the previously mentioned B. Infantis. Based on few days of use, this seems by far the most promising probiotic I have tried so far. No indication of immune system rev up which I get with other probiotics. A clear anti-inflammatory effect overall which I noticed within a day of use. Now I hope this will not dampen my immune system too much, which paradoxically happened with NAG and Flaxseed oil after a good first week.

    I can't recommend anything else than buying from a big, well-known manufacturer, such as Solgar or Now. I have also read about the risk of contamination and most of the Turmeric is imported which doesn't help it. But I vaguely remember reading something on the Solgar can that it would be extra well tested...
     
  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @123pdeme
    Interestingly, I also kind of diagnosed myself decades ago with some bipolar II. I've had this all my life. I have all the classic symptoms: lots of excessive enthusiasm and excessive optimism, life and soul of the party, but then I will often experience two or three hours each day where I feel bleakly dysphoric beyond words. Though as is often the case in bipolar, I lived for the ups.

    Anyway, whatever the shortcomings of bipolar II, it seems like a luxury in comparison to what I have now: after I caught a nasty neurotropic virus, I quickly developed: severe generalized anxiety disorder with some psychosis (both now in remission), severe ADHD, severe anhedonic depression, emotional flatness (blunted affect), ME/CFS (which itself causes short term and working memory problems, severe mental fatigue, sound sensitivity symptoms, and many other awful symptoms).

    I would give anything to get back to the days when I only had bipolar!


    If you are concerned about contamination of turmeric, I would suggest buying an expensive very high quality brand of turmeric supplement, like the Solgar brand. Many supplement manufactures are owned by pharmaceutical companies, and so no doubt such companies will have stringent quality control.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014

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