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Complete Symptom Relief and CFS Remission Since Starting Nitric Oxide Supplement

Sidney

Senior Member
Messages
146
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
i think broad based amino is better.
if you look at phd protein shakes have 7g of glutamine anyway.
might as well fire one of those into you.
least you will have added additional aminos also.
That certainly makes sense. Can you suggest any particular kind of protein shake? I have never had one.
 

kangaSue

Senior Member
Messages
1,851
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Thanks! - How great to find someone who knows anything about this cluster of conditions.
I guess you have to know to suspect it in the first place. If I weren't diagnosed with chronic microvascular intestinal ischemia in the first place it's not something I would have ever been looking into. I'll trade knowledge for "normal" any day.

I don't know myself yet if it's some form of Vasculitis, just waiting on the ANCA antibody test results but my Sed Rate and C-RP are normal so I'm quietly confident that it's not the case.
 

Sidney

Senior Member
Messages
146
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
I guess you have to know to suspect it in the first place. If I weren't diagnosed with chronic microvascular intestinal ischemia in the first place it's not something I would have ever been looking into. I'll trade knowledge for "normal" any day.

I don't know myself yet if it's some form of Vasculitis, just waiting on the ANCA antibody test results but my Sed Rate and C-RP are normal so I'm quietly confident that it's not the case.

Yes, 'Normal' would be well worth not needing to learn such things. I am grateful that you took the time to write, in the midst of such illness. I hope your results result in good treatment. Wishing you the best luck.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
so, i have narrowed down to the "magic" amino acids belong to l-glutamine and AAKG in my case, but they need to be taken together, around 10g Glutamine + 3 or 4g AKG, 3 times a day.

Interesting.

This study may be of relevance: they found that ME/CFS patients appeared to be using up their glutamate supplies, by using glutamate as an alternative energy source. If you supplement with L-glutamine, that can supply glutamate, as glutamine and glutamate are readily interconvertible.

In the study they reckon ME/CFS patients may be converting glutamate to alpha-ketoglutarate, which forms part of the Krebs cycle. (Note that in the study the refer to 2-oxoglutarate, but I believe this a synonym for alpha-ketoglutarate).

Cort wrote an article which covers this use of glutamate for energy: The "Starvation" Disease? Metabolomics Meets Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Down Under
 

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
975
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
Interesting.

This study may be of relevance: they found that ME/CFS patients appeared to be using up their glutamate supplies, by using glutamate as an alternative energy source. If you supplement with L-glutamine, that can supply glutamate, as glutamine and glutamate are readily interconvertible.

In the study they reckon ME/CFS patients may be converting glutamate to alpha-ketoglutarate, which forms part of the Krebs cycle. (Note that in the study the refer to 2-oxoglutarate, but I believe this a synonym for alpha-ketoglutarate).

Cort wrote an article which covers this use of glutamate for energy: The "Starvation" Disease? Metabolomics Meets Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Down Under

well blow me down and call me shorty.
Coincidentally, I ran into an old work colleague at the weekend from 20 years ago.
Told me he got CFS/ME in 2000. Bed ridden job.
Totally recovered now (yeah the ones you don't hear much about)
He has maintained a regime of hemp protein powder and spirulina.
I was telling him about moderate success with Protein shakes and l glutamine,,,he said he was on that in the past and switched to hemp protein for multiple reasons.
1. Antiviral and antibacterial.
2. More natural substance to body than manufactured powders.
3. Better antioxidant properties, so getting benefit of aminos and antioxidant.
4. Good for heavy metals, etc and liver cleansing.....
the list when on.......

He said he can still backslide if the diet goes awol, but the hemps bring him back into line.

It seems hemp contains high arginine amounts.
https://draxe.com/hemp-protein-powder/
 

knackers323

Senior Member
Messages
1,625
well blow me down and call me shorty.
Coincidentally, I ran into an old work colleague at the weekend from 20 years ago.
Told me he got CFS/ME in 2000. Bed ridden job.
Totally recovered now (yeah the ones you don't hear much about)
He has maintained a regime of hemp protein powder and spirulina.
I was telling him about moderate success with Protein shakes and l glutamine,,,he said he was on that in the past and switched to hemp protein for multiple reasons.
1. Antiviral and antibacterial.
2. More natural substance to body than manufactured powders.
3. Better antioxidant properties, so getting benefit of aminos and antioxidant.
4. Good for heavy metals, etc and liver cleansing.....
the list when on.......

He said he can still backslide if the diet goes awol, but the hemps bring him back into line.

It seems hemp contains high arginine amounts.
https://draxe.com/hemp-protein-powder/

@gregh286 what does the diet consist of?

is the diet and hemp seed and spirolina the only things that brought about his recovery?
 
Last edited:

TreePerson

Senior Member
Messages
292
Location
U.K.
Hi @gregh286
I am new to this forum so apologise if I am replying you in the wrong way.
I have spent the morning reading this thread. I think I mentioned to you a few days ago, in another thread, that I have always been aware of a lot of vascular type symptoms. In my case I feel that mainly they are constricted – I experience a blocked sensation in my legs. My feet are often blue when I stand. But also that my blood vessels overreact. So sometimes they overdilate and are visible. I can't drink alcohol. But I do experience relief from a hot bath.
You mentioned earlier in this thread taking dopamine? And that this plus one other neurotransmitter were low? Can I ask how you got tested for this? I have the impression you are in the UK.
My second question is do you have any thoughts around the healthy cells "pooping out" in ME blood? As most of this thread seems to have been focused on the actual supply or delivery of blood as being the problem? Which is different to the problem being in the blood. And as Fluge and Mella seem to have noted both the nitric oxide thing and the pooping out- not quite sure how it could be both. Sorry to burden you. You seem particularly well informed and to have a good understanding of biochemistry. Which I do not!
 

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,561
Location
Seattle
Interesting.

This study may be of relevance: they found that ME/CFS patients appeared to be using up their glutamate supplies, by using glutamate as an alternative energy source. If you supplement with L-glutamine, that can supply glutamate, as glutamine and glutamate are readily interconvertible.

In the study they reckon ME/CFS patients may be converting glutamate to alpha-ketoglutarate, which forms part of the Krebs cycle. (Note that in the study the refer to 2-oxoglutarate, but I believe this a synonym for alpha-ketoglutarate).

Cort wrote an article which covers this use of glutamate for energy: The "Starvation" Disease? Metabolomics Meets Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Down Under

Just a guess, but it could be that glutamate is being used up due to elevated ammonia levels.

Glutamate gets a bad rap (people confuse it with monosodium glutamate), but is needed to detoxify ammonia via the enzyme glutamine synthetase, which combines glutamate w/ammonia to form glutamine.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
I guess I'm talking about those of us who have experienced neurotoxic glutamate storms.

If glutamate converts to AKG, wouldnt the opposite be true?
 

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
975
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
Hi @gregh286
I am new to this forum so apologise if I am replying you in the wrong way.
I have spent the morning reading this thread. I think I mentioned to you a few days ago, in another thread, that I have always been aware of a lot of vascular type symptoms. In my case I feel that mainly they are constricted – I experience a blocked sensation in my legs. My feet are often blue when I stand. But also that my blood vessels overreact. So sometimes they overdilate and are visible. I can't drink alcohol. But I do experience relief from a hot bath.
You mentioned earlier in this thread taking dopamine? And that this plus one other neurotransmitter were low? Can I ask how you got tested for this? I have the impression you are in the UK.
My second question is do you have any thoughts around the healthy cells "pooping out" in ME blood? As most of this thread seems to have been focused on the actual supply or delivery of blood as being the problem? Which is different to the problem being in the blood. And as Fluge and Mella seem to have noted both the nitric oxide thing and the pooping out- not quite sure how it could be both. Sorry to burden you. You seem particularly well informed and to have a good understanding of biochemistry. Which I do not!

hi,
yea poor blood flow is a hallmark symptom in CFS.
I think the low neurotransmitters can be coming from low BH4, which is downstream from GTP, where there is blocked energy production in krebs cycle. This makes part of Ron Davis findings. Bluehorizonmedicals in UK can test them with urine sample.
The healthy cells "pooping" out is a relatively new finding I believe. Certainly would indicate an autoimmune element since they cant find any parasite or virus. Depends on how the Ritximab trial goes, I think we will then have better indication of B cell involvement.
The Nitric Oxide donors only helping symptoms as we enter anaerobic energy production due to a blocked ATP pathway, lactate builds in body. NO donors alleviate this lactate by increasing available NO and vasodilation.
Fluge and Mella original hypothesis was based on dysfunctional NO synthesis, but they seem to diverted their focus now on energy production pathways,
2017 promises to be a great year for CFS medical advancement.
 

TreePerson

Senior Member
Messages
292
Location
U.K.
hi,
yea poor blood flow is a hallmark symptom in CFS.
I think the low neurotransmitters can be coming from low BH4, which is downstream from GTP, where there is blocked energy production in krebs cycle. This makes part of Ron Davis findings. Bluehorizonmedicals in UK can test them with urine sample.
The healthy cells "pooping" out is a relatively new finding I believe. Certainly would indicate an autoimmune element since they cant find any parasite or virus. Depends on how the Ritximab trial goes, I think we will then have better indication of B cell involvement.
The Nitric Oxide donors only helping symptoms as we enter anaerobic energy production due to a blocked ATP pathway, lactate builds in body. NO donors alleviate this lactate by increasing available NO and vasodilation.
Fluge and Mella original hypothesis was based on dysfunctional NO synthesis, but they seem to diverted their focus now on energy production pathways,
2017 promises to be a great year for CFS medical advancement.

A quick search has left me feeling that understanding the GET and BH4 might be a bit beyond me! :-( But I think I get the idea. Problems in the Krebs cycle lead to
Problems elsewhere which in turn cause further problems. Thanks for the reply and the info re testing. I suspect my dopamine is low.