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Complete remission of symptoms when I have hay fever - anyone else had this?

Discussion in 'Immunological' started by Woolie, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    Strange. When I and my husband were still suffering from ME/CFS, eating bananas or strawberries for a couple of days would trigger a relapse. There is something there other than the sugar. Eating apples/pears/grapes and others would have no noticeable effect.

    I suppose this is an allergic response. However in our previous lives we had not been allergic to bananas and strawberries. And now we can eat both with no problems.
    lnester7 likes this.
  2. yukito

    yukito

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    Same here,dont support bananas anymore,coincidentally or not this happened when i begun eating butter months ago.Before butter bananas where not particularly problematic.I don't like strawberries but can not say for sure if it causes problems as I almost never eat it.
    Green apples from parent's garden partially alliviate the very big fatigue induced by the bananas.
  3. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    Well, I think I have an answer to this.
    You should take a look at a very interesting thread here on PR, the Resistant Starch Challenge.

    Green bananas are full of Resistant Starch and maybe starting big on one whole banana could trigger something, maybe not necessarily bad, but something ELSE.

    The butter connection you make is highly interesting. It would tend to point to butyrate/acetate balance. Not an expert on this, better ask someone on that thread.
    :)
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
    yukito likes this.
  4. yukito

    yukito

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    I was waiting to try the bob's red mill potato starch before posting on that thread.Sadly the product was out of stock,but today i come from seeing it is on stock again,yay.
    I will be able to confirm if it was really the RS in bananas that was causing problems.
    Butter definitely changed things, with butter no more able to eat bananas but also eggs...
    And my cravings for butter ceased after beggining coffee.
    For the moment I am in love with coffee,even if somedays I support it less.
  5. morinos

    morinos

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    ooo, yesterday i found russian forum, there people talking about it.. When they are sick, they do not have fatigue, depression and other.. And now i found these also here.
  6. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Only green bananas have resistant starch. Yellow bananas have none. As the color goes from green to yellow, that's a clear indicator of the RS being converted into sugars.
  7. yukito

    yukito

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    Last edited: Feb 28, 2014
  8. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    Edited!
  9. Mya Symons

    Mya Symons Mya Symons

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    I haven't had it with hay fever. However, my best days are when I am just starting to get over a cold or a flu. I feel better than ever. This is why I think CFS and FMS have to do with the immune system overreacting to something. Possibly, they are a new as of yet undiscovered autoimmune disease or the immune system is constantly on fighting some type of chronic infection. When my immune system starts focusing on something else like the flu, I feel so much better.

    It makes me wonder if we had the right kind of immune suppressor or we isolated and treated the infection, would we be cured?
  10. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    Welcome @morinos! Maybe it would be a good idea if you find something interesting on the Russian forum to bring it here. You could use Google Translate.
  11. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Suppressing autoimmunity is what the Rituximab trials are about - see this thread.

    A natural approach being taken to the same problem is fixing leaky gut, which some (including myself) believe is likely to be at the root of the autoimmunity. I have blogged about it here.
  12. morinos

    morinos

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    One doctor posted very interesting post about it (why we will better when we just starting to get over a cold). Also he recomended to use "Decaris" as i very powerful immunomodulator. Did anyone try it?

    "Decaris originally used ( and still use ) as a medicament for the treatment of ascariasis . Then, it was proved that Decaris ( levamisole ) has the ability to stimulate the physiological activity of the thymus ( thymus ), which entails both increased number and increased activity of T- lymphocytes stimulates the production of various cytokines , in particular interleukins . Decaris increases the phagocytic activity of macrophages .Dekaris restores depressed immune response , and normal immune response has virtually no effect . Decaris increases nonspecific resistance to various infectious diseases , including infectious diseases to wearing recurrent nature ."
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
    Asklipia and Aileen like this.
  13. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I use levamisole hydrochloride.
  14. Mya Symons

    Mya Symons Mya Symons

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    I have read about some of the Rituximab trials. I am not sure they have found the right immunosuppressor in Rituximab. It seems to fail after a while.
  15. Aileen

    Aileen Senior Member

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    Why have I not heard of this drug before? How long have you been using it and what symptoms does it help?
  16. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    You must have missed my posts about it.

    It reduces all symptoms. Many have disappeared others are much less severe.

    It is a very slow process, If I would not have been such a good observer I might not have noticed in the beginning.

    I still need it.
    Asklipia likes this.
  17. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    Thank you @morinos. This is very interesting. :thumbsup::thumbsup: Could you please give a link to that doctor's post in that forum? So that from time to time I may have a look at what they discuss.
    :)
  18. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    My theory is that this may be due, in many cases at least, to the patient continuing to inadvertently trigger the autoimmune activity, such as by consuming a diet that causes leaky gut, which in turn triggers the autoimmune process. I don't personally think that serious autoimmunity will develop spontaneously except in rare cases perhaps - there is an upstream cause of the autoimmunity. This is, in my view, one of the many benefits of trying a leaky-gut regime - it addresses problems one step further back in the chain of causation.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
    Aileen likes this.
  19. morinos

    morinos

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    There is full post, which was translated with google translator special for you =)

    "
    For colds will not necessarily decrease in depressive symptoms , and may be increased - it depends on the predominant type of immune response of the patient to infection : Th1 type response " aggressive" immune response , response -dependent T-cell type 1 , with early and excessive secretion of IFN, IL- 1 , IL- 2 , IL- 6, and such patients during infection gets worse and more often depressed "tail" after a cold , and "calm " answer - this early switch from Th1 to Th2 type cytokine secretion , when the " inflammatory " cytokines IFN, IL- 1 , IL- 2 , IL- 6 secretion quickly replaced inflammatory IL- 10 , IL- 12 and such patients during infections can become better because they have colds during the normalization of cytokine profile .
    What is the impact tsiktokiny depression ? It is known that doses of interferon used to treat , for example, hepatitis C, or kidney cancer often does not cause depression , and very often, interleukins 1 and 2 - the same as in depressed patients , these interleukins and interferon can be chronically raised, and it is shown that changes in cytokine profile proportional not so much gravity as prolonging the depression.
    As interferon penetrate the BBB ? And this does not occur , interferon causes inflammation of the vascular endothelium , endothelium releases prostaglandins and nitric oxide (NO), and those in turn , stimulate microglial cells - natural immune cells of the brain which serve as monocytes , macrophages , etc. Microglia in the BBB and begins to behave as well as on immune cells perferii , shifting the center of an immune response similar to that which occurs at the periphery , namely the same secrete IFN-a, IL- 1 , IL- 2 .
    Neurons that are combined with this active microglia , " sick " : lose axons decreases their electrical activity occurring receptor changes reduced plasticity membranes neuron may just die - to undergo apoptosis , especially under the influence of FNO. And it was shown that patients with depression and aggression microglia activation and increased secretion of inflammatory cytokines occurs nowhere else but in the hippocampus and limbic where inflammation damages and kills neurons . Facts atrophy of the hippocampus and limbic transferred after many phases or one lingering long been known , as well as protective (and even restorative ) effect of antidepressants and mood stabilizers ETT process .
    It is shown that the longer the depression, the more pronounced hypercortisolemic and shifts in cytokine profile and cellular immunity . Lowering the production of interferons and interleukins , while normalization of T cell function (a T- cell-mediated immunity is lowered by depression) during prolonged , protracted , polyvalent resistant depression helps "break" resistance , " connected" with the immune processes .
    On the other hand the presence of the original patient autoimmune or atopic allergic diseases (asthma , psoriasis , atopic dermatitis, allergic rhinitis, allergic conjunctivitis) involves changes in cytokine profile and cellular immunity and depression in this patient requires intervention in immune mechanisms . The role of immune mechanisms can check laboratory - immunogram and cytokine profile , reduced function of T-suppressors and simultaneously lowered function of T-killers , can be increased humoral immunity, decreased phagocytic activity of leukocytes and macrophages , decreased T- suppressor activity predisposes to autoimmune processes , and reduced T- killer and macrophage explains frequent colds and stuff.
    - immunogram - T-helpery/T-supressory ratio has a value of T- killer activity , NK- killer activity
    - cytokine profile - Increased IFN-a, IL- 1 , IL- 2 , IL- 6 , FNO-a, a reduced inflammatory IL-10
    - in the hormonal profile - elevated cortisol
    ( reduce the error in the study is possible, if carefully and measure 24 -hour urine cortisol or measure basal cortisol and cortisol after dexamethasone suppression , and a cannula into a vein before and set to take a stress-free , or saliva to measure cortisol )
    Ie task is to reduce the activity of microglia. Actually BP also immunomodulators, through the influence of 5 -HT and other receptors on microglial cells , osuschestvlyut anti-inflammatory, cytoprotective effects , normalize cytokine secretion microglial cells . But sometimes this is not enough , when the immune regulation less mobile , need immunomodulators are able to penetrate the BBB , also reduce this most vicious microglia activation , alone they do not work , but only create opportunities for BP.
    Today there are only two immunomodulator penetrating the BBB and affect cytokine and killer activity of microglia : levamisole and chloroquine ( hydroxychloroquine ) . Penetration through the BBB prerequisite normalization of cytokines on the periphery, in the blood does not give the desired effect , it is necessary to normalize the activity of microglia on the spot.
    Levamisole , then 150 mg twice a week ( 150 mg for 2 consecutive days once a week - a more aggressive but toxic variant).
    - Chloroquine is 250 mg . every evening after dinner.
    Applies only one drug combination does not enhance the effect , but will toxic side effects . Immunomodulator therapy within 4-8 weeks , along with a powerful antidepressant in adequate doses (SNRI or TCA - because we are dealing with a lingering, resistant depression ) . Longer therapy only makes sense if there is concomitant disease which itself requires an immunomodulator (rheumatoid arthritis , SLE , etc.).
    It is known that etanercept (soluble human type II receptors for FNO-a ( r75kD ) and human IgG1 to Fc- fragment , etanercept has dual action , inhibits tumor necrosis factor -alpha (FNO-a) and lymphotoxin ) enhances appetite and mood cancer patients when etanercept was applied for the treatment of ulcerative colitis , and so on . then noted that even before the clinical improvement in patients with normal sleep , appetite, behavior and mood. Etanercept experienced and depression - it helps potentiates BP - but it is a theoretical option - very expensive, it is important that once again shows the role of immune mechanisms .
    Prolonged , resistant depression is a special stratagem neuronal interactions , immune and endocrine factors . You do not know what to answer (or not answer ) a particular patient - to add delagila or adding zheezy thyroid hormones , or, for example , ketoconazole . In any case in a given volume of the immune system and the hypothalamic - pituitary-adrenal axis is involved genesis of depression always . You can remember about BDNF, buyout increased against the background of ECT with antidepressants , lithium, and valproate . The ultimate goal is the same - rescue neurons from apoptosis .

    What happens after the injection pyrogenal or after administration of a decent dose of interferon or IL- 1, 22 ? Condition very similar to depression in many ways , the so-called sickness behavior: lack of appetite , sleep disturbances , while drowsiness, weakness, lethargy , weakness , fatigue, aches and pain in muscles, joints, bones . It is believed that interferon, interleukins , FNO-a partly responsible for the lack of appetite , weight loss , fatigue , weakness , drowsiness , lethargy in depressed patients . Selective antagonists of IL- 1, 2, also showed interesting effects on affect.
    With the increase in IL- 1, 2 , FNO-a - automatically increased cortisol - the adrenal glands are trying to counter inflammation , on the other hand, if the affected neurons of the hypothalamus , the adverse effect on the adrenal glands excited only amplified, and the relationship of cortisol and depression - obvious .
    And this applies not only to depression. In schizophrenia also exhibit elevated levels of inflammatory cytokines in the blood and the activity of microglia , and precisely in the frontal lobes - where reduced activity or neuronal death cries deficit symptoms .
    Atypical antipsychotics act including immunoregulatory way through the 5 -HT2, implementing prevention of neuronal loss in the prefrontal cortex ."
    Asklipia likes this.
  20. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I've had complete remission of brain fog or this unreal existence i'm in on several occasions not lasting more than several hours.
    1. After a REAL good night sleep without interruption. This happened only twice in the last 3 years
    2. Right after recovering from the flu
    3. Whilst having stomach cramps, perhaps this has to do with the vagus nerve?

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