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Complementary and alternative healthcare use by participants in the PACE trial of treatments for CFS

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Dolphin, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Complementary and alternative healthcare use by participants in the PACE trial of treatments for chronic fatigue syndrome.


     
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  2. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    This is uninteresting if you're interested in learning about treatments as there is not a breakdown by therapy. They have 3 categories:
    CAM medication use;
    CAM practitioner use;
    & Any CAM use.

    No percentage breakdown is given of the use of different CAM therapies or CAM practitioners.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
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  3. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    They do highlight a big problem with the interpretation of the data.

     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
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  4. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    They claimed the following, but I'm not sure what evidence there is for it (maybe someone can point it out to me):

    At one point they say:

     
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  5. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    How does "nearly significant" work, then?
     
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  6. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    I'll translate: "It wasn't significant at all, even when using a p-value of 0.05 or 0.1, and doing our best to manipulate the data to produce a significant result."

    :nerd:
     
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  7. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    God, what a zero paper. There's just nothing at all in it. No research question, method, no design, no result. How the hell do they get this guff published?
     
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  8. MEMum

    MEMum Senior Member

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    Let's just hope there's no skewed press coverage of this zero paper.
     
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  9. Daisymay

    Daisymay Senior Member

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    In my innocence I had presumed that anyone taking part in any scientific trial would have to agree to not start any other treatments for the duration of the trial? Obviously wrong.

    And why has it taken 5 years to come out with this info? Oh off course, they need to prolong the PACE trial papers for as long as possible as it's one of their excuses for not publishing the raw data.

    Surely as a potential confounding factor this should have been addressed at the very beginning of the PACE saga not now?

    How can they differentiate as to whether some, just some of the supposed improvement they claim to be due to CBT/GET wasn't down to some patients being helped to say sleep better, be in less pain, shade more eneregy with say acupuncture, osteopathy, magnesium etc so might these statistically insignificant CAM improvements have helped to skew the CBT/GET scores in a positive direction without them knowing? Or the placebo effect of CAM?
     
  10. Chrisb

    Chrisb Senior Member

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    Tell me if you think I am over-interpreting this.

    Do they really have any interest in the clinical outcome of CAM use? The message which they might wish to have come across is that the majority of patients are female proponents of CAM, and we all know what that means; nudge, nudge.

    The audience to which this message might speak would not understand that there is no comparison with use of CAM in other established conditions. So what is the point of it?
     
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  11. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    Yes I wouldn't be surprised if it were their aim.

    A rapid search brings numbers quite similar for the use of CAM in cancer patients:

    https://nccih.nih.gov/health/cancer/camcancer.htm#use

    http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/18/13/2515.abstract
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
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  12. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Which basically makes the whole thing a completely useless piece of research. You can't group together dozens, or hundreds, maybe even thousands of alternative treatments and measure them together as if they are one thing. Of course you will find what you find. I'm not a big fan of alternative treatments, mostly they are a waste of time, but I long for some decent quality research from the UK, not this kind of junk.
     
  13. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    'nearly significant'....I've not seen that in a paper before. Surely, the point is that it is either significant or it is not. Nearly significant is the same as 'not significant' in my book.

    I am not at all surprised that people who are in a treatment arm of a trial lower their use of alternative treatments. No doubt they do the same when trying a new alternative treatment, how else can you tell what is working? Common sense, surely.
     
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  14. user9876

    user9876 Senior Member

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    It will also depend on whether therapists and doctors discouraged their use.

    It does make me wonder what counts as CAM for example does taking vitamin supplements (unless suggested by a doctor or dietician)?
     
  15. Daisymay

    Daisymay Senior Member

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    Yes, could taking one vitamin D capsule each day count as CAM?
     
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  16. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    Nearly significant is the same as "nearly insignificant."
     
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  17. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    I was going to agree but ... isn't it the same as "insignificant".
     
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  18. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    That's not much of a definition of CAM.

    CAM is defined as being delivered by CAM practitioners, who are defined by delivering CAM.

    I'd be interested in knowing how they justified splitting CAM from CBT/GET/APT.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
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  19. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Not 100% clear. They say:
    and
    I'm sceptical of a lot of alternative medicine. However treatments like l-carnitine are based on plausible theories and have RCT evidence. These look like they would be counted as CAM in the trial; probably vitamins also.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
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  20. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    Remember it is the Journal of Psychosomatic Research - the authors are convinced that they have undertaken real physical research but this is merely a false belief on their part.
     
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