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Coleus Forskolii to reduce IgE, histamine, bp, and PAF???

Discussion in 'Mast Cell Disorders/Mastocytosis' started by triffid113, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    But cAMP (and AMPK) are important in cellular energy homeostatsis (which I think means it is required to break down glucogen for energy). So maybe it is the answer to its own ATP requirement???

    Wiki actually says something I do not understand -- apparently there are different AMPK's...

    5' AMP-activated protein kinase or AMPK or 5' adenosine monophosphate-activated protein kinase is an enzyme that plays a role in cellular energy homeostasis. The net effect of AMPK activation is stimulation of hepatic fatty acid oxidation and ketogenesis, inhibition of cholesterol synthesis, lipogenesis, and triglyceride synthesis, inhibition of adipocyte lipolysis and lipogenesis, stimulation of skeletal muscle fatty acid oxidation and muscle glucose uptake, and modulation of insulin secretion by pancreatic beta-cells.[1]


    It should not be confused with cyclic AMP-activated protein kinase (protein kinase A), which, although being of similar nature, may have opposite effects.[2]

    And even worse follows...idk how but CBS enzyme is involved here (who knew it was used anywhere but methylation and I am CBS +/+!). Also it sounds like AMPK makes you gain weight whereas cAMP makes you lose weight (which makes no sense to me because cAMP always activates AMPK, so they would go hand-in-hand you'd think?)

    So here is the rest of this passage from Wiki:
    AMPK acts as a metabolic master switch regulating several intracellular systems including the cellular uptake of glucose, the β-oxidation of fatty acids and the biogenesis of glucose transporter 4 (GLUT4) and mitochondria.[11][not in citation given][12][13][not in citation given][14][15] The energy-sensing capability of AMPK can be attributed to its ability to detect and react to fluctuations in the AMP:ATP ratio that take place during rest and exercise (muscle stimulation). During muscle stimulation, AMP increases while ATP decreases, which changes AMPK into a good substrate for activation via an upstream kinase complex, AMPKK, or better, where binding of AMP renders activated AMPK that is phosphorylated at Thr-172 a worse substrate for protein phosphatase 2Calpha.[16] AMPKK is a complex of three proteins, STE-related adaptor (STRAD), mouse protein 25 (MO25), and LKB1 (a serine/threonine kinase). During a bout of exercise, AMPK activity increases while the muscle cell experiences metabolic stress brought about by an extreme cellular demand for ATP. Upon activation, AMPK increases cellular energy levels by inhibiting anabolic energy consuming pathways (fatty acid synthesis, protein synthesis, etc.) and stimulating energy producing, catabolic pathways (fatty acid oxidation, glucose transport, etc.).
    A recent JBC paper on mice at Johns Hopkins has shown that when the activity of brain AMPK was pharmacologically inhibited, the mice ate less and lost weight. When AMPK activity was pharmacologically raised (AICAR see below) the mice ate more and gained weight.[17] Research in Britain has shown that the appetite-stimulating hormone ghrelin also affects AMPK levels.[18] The antidiabetic drug metformin (Glucophage) acts by stimulating AMPK,[19][20] leading to reduced glucose production in the liver and reduced insulin resistance in the muscle. (Metformin usually causes weight loss and reduced appetite[citation needed], not weight gain and increased appetite, which is opposite of what might be expected given the Johns Hopkins mouse study results. )
    Recent research [21] has implicated overproduction of AMPK in the genesis of Alzheimer's disease. This has raised theoretical concern over the safety of Metformin.
    A number of recent studies suggest that the botanical alkaloid berberine, also activates AMPK and glucose transport in muscles.[22][23][24][25][26]
     
  2. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    So this is what happens (what I get from it anyway):
    It looks like AMP is just ATP minus two phosphorus groups!

    AMP/ATP is just a means of detecting energy need. When you use your muscles, lots of ATP give up a phosphorus group (which produces energy) and become ADP, and then ADPs give up another phosphorus to become AMP!
    This raises the concentration of AMP in relation to ATP. Alternately we can supply AMP via forskohlii.

    Raising the concentration of AMP makes it more likely that 2 AMP molecules bind together,
    which binding twists the molecule to expose the active site (thus activates it). When it is activated, it will take a phosphorus from ATP and give it to a protein (muscle), which is called phosphorylation. So...raising AMP
    is simply creating a demand for ATP! (And that is why it is called cyclical AMP!)

    So it sounds like you would not want either forskohlii or berberin if you have an ATP deficit, and YET...

    you need cAMP to BREAK DOWN GLUCOGEN to create ATP! And also, in the case of allergies, it has been shown that allergies are consistent with low cAMP and remedies for allergies raise cAMP. So...? I think I want to try to raise cAMP. At any rate cAMP is anti-PAF and I am real concerned about PAF.

    So...I don't have the total picture yet. I admit it is troubling, but having cAMP and not having cAMP both seem troubling...
     
  3. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    I also read that what exercise does is lower ATP and raise AMP so it sounds like (1) forskohlii is NOT what you'd want if you have CFS (2) taking forskohlii sounds like exercise w/o the sweat-equity! (So can we sit back in our Lazy Boys, eat forskohlii pills, and be fit?!

    idk, idk....you see we somehow need all of this - we just need ATP.

    So now here's my next question...what if we take forskohlii AND berberine, raising cAMP AND AMPK???
     
  4. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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  5. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    ok, ALEX, - what about this????!!

    Apparently one can buy ATP pills now?!! And they have effect!!!

    http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2013/09/orally-administered-atp-400mg-increases.html

    And LEF sells it: http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-PEAK-ATP-with-GlycoCarn-60-Veggie-Caps/38522
    And here's one with malic acid and magnesium for the Kreb cycle: http://www.iherb.com/Progressive-Laboratories-ATP-Energy-90-Veggie-Caps/33790

    I found that, of course, in searching out cAMP references of interest: http://lawugreentea.blogspot.ca/2011/09/intermittent-thoughts-on-intermittent.html
    This blog and the one before it make a case for intermittent fasting to switch the body from anabolic to catabolic frequently so the body can clean itself out on a regular basis. Well it said that in a LOT more detail including discussions of AMPK and mTOR.
     
  6. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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  7. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member

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    I was looking at maybe trying this
     
  8. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I take it and think maybe it helps. I have a difficult time telling if anything is helping, though.
     
  9. 0kaygrl

    0kaygrl

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    This is interesting, glad it got bumped. Been wanting to raise cAMP myself but forgot about it. I find spirulina helps me a lot too, take it daily. Have you heard of CILTEP? It's a stack created by members of longecity.org that has forskolin and artichoke extract and it's been lauded to increase energy and enhance mental focus. There's a place selling it in one pill, idk if it'd be cheaper to buy separately but anyway might be interesting to learn more about this stack or give it a try myself. Maybe I'll go take a look at the CILTEP thread on longecity but IIRC it's really long...
     
  10. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    You could not eat enough ATP pills to give you lasting energy. What they will do is, if absorbed from the gut intact, lead to a higher ATP/ADP pool. That might help. Its not the energy that matters, its the available pool to make more energy. You might get a similar effect from taking ribose. To anyone taking ATP, what is the timeline of improvement? Instant, delayed, prolonged, temporary?

    Raising cAMP has lots of good effects. I am not convinced its a bad idea, but as always this will vary person by person.
     
  11. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member

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    I'm trying to understand the relationship between the Pineal gland,Histamine and Cyclic AMP,and how it can lead to leaky tissue,gut and brain barrier,and vasoconstriction.
     

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