Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Colds etc, feeling better, anyone ever get to the bottom of this?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Skippa, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

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    Hi, I've currently got some kind of cold going on and am being rather active.

    I've medicated the snotty nose, sore throat and headaches, and my brain is very alert, I've done a bunch of household chores and am reading up on some technical stuff without approaching PEM.

    Now, I know a bunch of folks have reported feeling better with colds/flu etc (I'm just reading through some threads... but... did anyone ever get to the bottom of this?

    I'd love to be able to replicate it at will...
     
  2. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Yes, my good doc, who is an immunologist among other things, said it was because your immune system had revved up in response to having the cold.

    The last time I had a cold (after the cold was over), I felt somewhat better for a couple of months.
     
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  3. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

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    Any way of tricking the immune system into "revving up"?

    And if that were possible, would it lead to further related problems after a while?
     
  4. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Wouldn't something like Immunovir or Inosine help do this, hypothetically?

    I have the same result with colds, unless its EBV reactivation, then it's bad.
     
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  5. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Catch a cold 4 to 6 times a year? :)
     
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  6. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    for me, nothing helps until I get a lot of rest when I need it... I've been on a push-crash cycle my whole adult life, and when I crash, I need to just go to bed.. If I haven't been eating right, then that's part of the first step, too...Then I slowly start trying things to replenish and detox.

    1. Anti-oxidants are helpful for me... I struggle w detoxing pollution / particulate matter, even though my city is mostly hovers between "yellow" and "green" for a pollution rating .... Here are the things my body responds to, listed in order of frequency:

    Magnesium - heavy metal chelator, and good for mito.... I take this often
    Zinc - fairly high doses of a bio-available form
    Alpha Lipoic Acid
    Vitamin C - from tapioca (non-corn derived). I use ecological formulas brand
    astaxanthin - anti-inflammatory, too
    Vitamin D - don't take it every day, but I take it for a boost.
    Methylfolate - can increase SOD, and I just got a nice boost from it this week.. However, you need to ensure that you have manganese, zinc and copper, so I suggest rotating. I don't take it very often, but I keep it on hand and it was helpful this week

    2. Anti Inflammatories

    wobenzyme or vascuzyme - these were a big help, and I don't read much about it on CFS forums/literature, so I think it's an over looked anti-inflammatory
    betaine hcl - goes hand-in-hand w wobie and vascuzyme
    DHA - EPA lowers NK cells, so I don't take both...

    3. miscellaneous

    glutamine - one of the few things that helps w brain fog, albeit only for a little while; makes my sinuses/head feel clearer; listing it because I think gut supps help w inflammation and immunity
    oregano oil - primarily for gut/sinuses, but helps w inflammation, too

    4. Immune modulators
    I just had a bad experience w mushrooms (chaga, reishi, cordyceps) in June-July... However, the inflammation in my respiratory system and head was so much better at first... I felt like I could take a deep breath for the first time in a long time.... I think I over did it, so I'll try again at a very low dose... Inosine did nothing, but a lot of ppl like it.

    start low and go slow is the PR mantra, and in my experience, this is particularly true for anything affecting the immune system..No miracles, unfortunately.. Most things that made me feel much better really fast also made me crash (except wobenzyme, which is not a miracle but has been excellent for inflammation)...

    Arginine made me feel incredible, and particularly helped concentration and brain fog... I have never felt so organized in my adult life! one of the worst crashes I've ever had

    Prednisone is evil, but it's the only thing that would bring the swelling down in my throat after mono in 2001... I think that the bad effects lasted much longer than any doctor would believe
     
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  7. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Moderated, no explanation given

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    You,need to surround yourself with 2-5 year olds......seriously they are disgusting and make loads of noise but are a great source for the latest virus. I recommend soft play areas. If you get desperate you could try licking the balls in the ball pit? Just don't drink the coffee it's sterile and tastes disgusting.
     
  8. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    Unfortunately not. I am one of the ones that get remissions with viruses (I went kareoking when I got zicca!! how great I felt). Immunovir has calmed my hyper reactivity immune system but nothing makes me feel as great like viruses do.
     
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  9. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Doesn't immunovir activate the immune system?
     
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  10. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    Immunovir is considered an immune modulator. There are other drugs classified as immune boosters, Specific to activate or boost the immune system. (also Immune suppression drugs)
     
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  11. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    What are other immune boosting drugs?
     
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  12. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Hello @Skippa - My understanding of why some people feel better when they have a cold or flu is the TH1/TH2 balance theory. The th1 arm of the immune system is the innate immunity and the th2 arm of the immune system the adaptive immunity.

    The innate immunity (th1) is the part of the immune system that initially fights off colds and flu's and therefore becomes stimulated when one is sick. Some believe there is primarily a th2 dominance in cfs and by stimulating the th1 arm of the immune system, one can get symptom relief, because it re-balances the immune system. I am th2 dominant and read somebodies th1/th2 testing here at PR a few days ago.

    Their results showed only 2 high th1 cytokines but 5 high th2 cytokines, a clear th2 dominance. Reishi, Astragulas, Cordyceps and other th1 boosters, could help with symptoms. I have found that starting with very low doses and slowly going up from there is best to avoid side effects. The only side effects I get from this approach is an increase in energy.:)

    I think Immunovir is also a th1 booster as well, helping to re-balance the immune system in cfs. Here is a study showing th2 dominance in cfs-

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1808936/
     
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  13. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Here is another reference to th1/th2 balance in cfs-

    LINK
    Jim
     
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  14. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Alpha lipoic acid is an antioxidant, but it's also a metal chelator. If you have metals and don't take it on it's half life (like every 3 hours) it will cause metal redistribution and make you worse.

    Many people don't realize this and take it once a day for its antioxidant properties.
     
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  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    so you have to take it 8x per day? (every 3 hrs) ... OR, can taking slow release ALA fix this?

    Do you know if PM2.5 and PM 10 contain heavy metals?

    thanks
     
  16. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    so th2 = toxins (eg pollution), allergens, etc., and th1 = viruses, colds

    I have no resistance to colds & flus, but I'm also hyper sensitive to particulate matter.. Both colds/flus and pollution make me feel way, way worse.... so I'm confused whether I'm th1 vs th2 dominant... what do you think?

    I believe that most CFS'ers DON'T get colds, flus, which would mean that they are th1 dominant... Do I understand this correctly?

    thanks
     
  17. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    TH1/TH2 is a very simplified model, experts like Jonathan Edwards have it said here and I don't think there's a doctor that treats diseases based on this model anymore. The immune system for example primes TH17 cells that are not mentioned in this model at all.

    The TH1 boosters do not produce a similar remission as flu/cold for me, TH1 boosters just basically amplify all my current symptoms, which tells me the immune system is perhaps working harder, but is not really much of use for me. They probably amplify some pro-inflammatory cytokines, but adding more inflammation over inflammation is probably not a good idea for most of us. Immune modulators like LDN act in more complex and selective way and have provided better results for me. But still nothing has come close to the cold/flu effect.
     
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  18. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    What th1 modulators have you tried ?
     
  19. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    I agree that it is a simplified model. It's not black or white, many people will have some high th1 cytokines and some high th2 cytokines as I mentioned in my post above about the cytokine tests I was looking at that someone had done here.

    In his case he had 2 high th1 cytokines and 5 high th2 cytokines, which means he is primarily th2 dominant. That's probably why there are mixed responses to th1 boosters or cold and flu's.

    Herbs and supplements also usually don't boost just th1, but also to some degree th2. So one's response to a cold, flu or a herb that primarily boosts th1, would depend heavily on there specific cytokine pattern.

    I don't think that's right, although some don't catch many colds and flu's, I think most do. Again, there are many variables to why people don't catch colds and flu's also, besides immunity.

    I think one the reasons I use to catch so many viruses, besides my low immunity, is because of my allergies. I was constantly rubbing my eyes and nose, where viruses can easily get into the body.

    Jim
     
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  20. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    Inosine, astragalus, reishi or some mix of mushrooms, beta glucans, probiotics and probably a bunch of other things, but mostly herbs. The problem I have with all is that they increase inflammatory symptoms and the most bothersome effect is they produce depression and fatigue that is worse than normal. I tolerate each for about a week, after that it's no point to continue. I think the herbal stuff is too "unselective" for many of us and globally stimulates the immune system, if that makes any sense. Or in other words, it sort of amplifies everything, but the immune system is still dysfunctioning, so the gain is questionable.
     
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