alex3619
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They produce bad science but effective politics.
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Cognitive remediation training improves performance in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome
- Thread starter Kati
- Start date
NelliePledge
Senior Member
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Ah ok at 22 months in from diagnosis I'm only a beginner on ME history.
Hutan
Senior Member
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- 1,099
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- New Zealand
Why a person with ME/CFS will probably score better on a re-test of cognitive ability than on the initial test:
(this is a loose amalgam of things I have experienced with hospital appointments and research trials).
These researchers for the most part ignore the possibility that there is a re-test effect. They do not get
It is not clear how much of the cognitive training is focused on exercises that are the same or very similar to the test exercises.
So, for the only objective part of this research, we have no idea how much of the measured cognitive improvement can be attributed to a re-test effect or to training effects that are so specific that they have very little relevance to every day life.
The main potentially useful finding from this trial is that the researchers and whoever gave approval for their research and funded it are noddies.
Sadly, the clinicians basing their treatments of people with ME on it almost certainly won't take the time to properly read the paper and come to the same conclusion.
(this is a loose amalgam of things I have experienced with hospital appointments and research trials).
First test
1. Ok, I have to find the testing location. Half an hour drive. Got to the hospital, yaay. But where is Entrance 3? It's not after Entrance 2! Damn, I can't find a map of the hospital on my phone. Why is there no sign? I'll just have to go in here and hope it's close.
2. Now where to park? Damn! No parks anywhere here. Ah finally, here is one. Oh great, it's raining. How do I pay for this car park? Oh, there's a machine way over there. Have to walk back to the car to put the ticket on the dashboard.
3. Long walk to the testing location. Have to ask a couple of people where I am going.
4. Ah, finally, here is the testing location. Remember to not look like a crazy woman, smile. Make small talk with the researcher. What was her name?
5. Oh, twenty minutes early? Sure, that's fine. I'll just sit here. I don't feel good at all, dizzy. And it's cold in here and I don't have a jacket. I really don't feel well. I'll do a game on my phone to pass the time.
6. Thirty minutes later. Ok, yes, I understand that there will be a trial run of each exercise and then the exercise that is scored. Here's a screen full of instructions. But I really don't feel up to reading all of that right now. If there is a test run, I'm sure I'll be able to work out what is going on. So, l'll just get started.
7. Damn, there was no test run for this one. Oh, now I see what I'm supposed to be doing with this. Yep, perhaps if I do it this way I'll do better. Oh, it's finished. I really stuffed that one up. Should I tell the researcher that it probably wasn't an accurate test? Never mind, I must try to concentrate on this next one.
8. I really really need to lie down, and it's so cold in here. My fingers are sort of numb.
9. Thank God, it's done.
Second test
I know where I am going, I have a jacket so I keep warm. I park closer to the testing location. I time my travel better so I get there just on time. I know the researcher, I know the test. I'm not exhausted and dizzy when I start the test. I have plenty of energy to focus. Since the first test, I have thought of a couple more ways to do better on the exercises.
1. Ok, I have to find the testing location. Half an hour drive. Got to the hospital, yaay. But where is Entrance 3? It's not after Entrance 2! Damn, I can't find a map of the hospital on my phone. Why is there no sign? I'll just have to go in here and hope it's close.
2. Now where to park? Damn! No parks anywhere here. Ah finally, here is one. Oh great, it's raining. How do I pay for this car park? Oh, there's a machine way over there. Have to walk back to the car to put the ticket on the dashboard.
3. Long walk to the testing location. Have to ask a couple of people where I am going.
4. Ah, finally, here is the testing location. Remember to not look like a crazy woman, smile. Make small talk with the researcher. What was her name?
5. Oh, twenty minutes early? Sure, that's fine. I'll just sit here. I don't feel good at all, dizzy. And it's cold in here and I don't have a jacket. I really don't feel well. I'll do a game on my phone to pass the time.
6. Thirty minutes later. Ok, yes, I understand that there will be a trial run of each exercise and then the exercise that is scored. Here's a screen full of instructions. But I really don't feel up to reading all of that right now. If there is a test run, I'm sure I'll be able to work out what is going on. So, l'll just get started.
7. Damn, there was no test run for this one. Oh, now I see what I'm supposed to be doing with this. Yep, perhaps if I do it this way I'll do better. Oh, it's finished. I really stuffed that one up. Should I tell the researcher that it probably wasn't an accurate test? Never mind, I must try to concentrate on this next one.
8. I really really need to lie down, and it's so cold in here. My fingers are sort of numb.
9. Thank God, it's done.
Second test
I know where I am going, I have a jacket so I keep warm. I park closer to the testing location. I time my travel better so I get there just on time. I know the researcher, I know the test. I'm not exhausted and dizzy when I start the test. I have plenty of energy to focus. Since the first test, I have thought of a couple more ways to do better on the exercises.
These researchers for the most part ignore the possibility that there is a re-test effect. They do not get
the 'people with CBT/GET without cognitive training' and/or
'people with ME/CFS with no CBT/GET or cognitive training' and/or
'matched control healthy people with cognitive training' and/or
'matched control healthy people without cognitive training'
to do the objective cognitive testing and re-testing so that some useful comparisons might be made.'people with ME/CFS with no CBT/GET or cognitive training' and/or
'matched control healthy people with cognitive training' and/or
'matched control healthy people without cognitive training'
It is not clear how much of the cognitive training is focused on exercises that are the same or very similar to the test exercises.
So, for the only objective part of this research, we have no idea how much of the measured cognitive improvement can be attributed to a re-test effect or to training effects that are so specific that they have very little relevance to every day life.
The main potentially useful finding from this trial is that the researchers and whoever gave approval for their research and funded it are noddies.
Sadly, the clinicians basing their treatments of people with ME on it almost certainly won't take the time to properly read the paper and come to the same conclusion.
Last edited:
Ouch, you just fried 50% of my brain cells and i can't even finish reading till 9 
Yes, it's very weird that they don't use the controls from the rest of the study to control for the test/retest effect. Or maybe they did, and the results showed the controls improved just as much, and they dropped those results so they could claim the CET patients improved due to CET.