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Coffee Enemas!!

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by douglasmich, Apr 16, 2016.

  1. douglasmich

    douglasmich

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    So after reading Max Gerson MD"s book i decided to start Coffee Enemas, despite how weird they sounded. I can say for certain that they have done a number on my brainfog and depression and make me feel overall alot better

    "The purpose of the enemas is
    to remove toxins accumulated in the liver and to remove free radicals from the bloodstream. In the 1920s, two
    German professors tested the effects of infused caffeine on rats. They found that the caffeine travels via the
    hemorrhoidal vein and the portal system to the liver, opens up the bile ducts and allows the liver to release bile, which contains toxins.

    The theobromine, theophylline, and the caffeine in coffee dilate blood vessels and bile ducts, relax smooth muscles, and increase the bile flow.

    Doctors at the University of Minnesota showed that coffee administered rectally also stimulates an enzyme system in the liver called glutathione S-transferase by 600%-700% above normal activity levels. This enzyme reacts with free radicals (which cause cell damage) in the bloodstream and makes them inert. These neutralized substances become dissolved in the bile, are released through the bile flow from the liver and gallbladder, and are
    excreted through the intestinal tract.

    A Gerson patient holds the coffee enema in the colon for 12-15 minutes. During this time, the body’s entire blood supply passes through the liver 4-5 times, carrying poisons picked up
    from the tissues. So the enema acts as a form of dialysis of the blood across the gut wall.

    The purpose of the coffee enema is not to clear out the intestines, but the quart of water in the enema stimulates peristalsis in the gut. A portion of the water also dilutes the bile and increases the bile flow, thereby flushing toxic
    bile (loaded with toxins by the glutathione S-transferase enzyme system) out of the intestines.

    A patient coping with a chronic degenerative disease or an acute illness can achieve the following benefits from the lowering of blood serum toxin levels achieved by regular administration of coffee enemas:

    1) increased cell energy production
    2) enhanced tissue health
    3) improved blood circulation
    4) better immunity and tissue repair and
    5) cellular regeneration

    Additionally, coffee enemas can help to relieve pain, nausea, general nervous tension and depression.

    References: A Cancer Therapy: Results of Fifty Cases by Dr. Gerson, Healing the Gerson Way by Charlotte Gerson ,
    and Liver Detoxification with Coffee Enemas by Morton Walker, DPM excerpted from July 2001 edition of
    Townsend Newsletter."

    I dont know how much of this is true, but i feel like CEs are a valuable tool despite the criticism from science (bigpharma) based medicine .

    I am doing them twice per day, and drinking 3 cups of raw organic juice per enema to replenish minerals.

    I have severe constipation so if i don't have a bowel movement i do a quick water enema then follow up with CE

    So come in, join the thread and share your experience with CEs or ask any questions
     
    Rlman, xptriado, Wayne and 3 others like this.
  2. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    Do you add milk?
     
  3. douglasmich

    douglasmich

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    Lol not sure if that's a joke or not.

    No i use a medium to light roast organic coffee. Dump 3 TBSP into a pan with 1 Quart of distilled or filtered water. I then bring it to a boil and keep it there for 3-5 minutes then i bring it back down to a low simmer covered for 15-20 minutes

    Then i top the water back up to 1 Quart and let it cool to body temperature, fill up the enema bucket and do the enema. I then retain it for 15 minutes then expell. Follow it up with some organic juice, sea salt and/or coconut water
     
    ebethc likes this.
  4. Kina

    Kina

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    There are no reputable studies to support anything that the quack Gerson has claimed.

    Take a look how it all works, coffee will have more of an effect by mouth over enema.

    Any enema will relieve constipation which is why they are used.

    You are making some pretty heavy claims, how about some replicated research with significant results,

    https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.or...acist-what-are-the-benefits-of-coffee-enemas/

    http://www.insufferableintolerance.com/coffee-enemas-dont-know-now-coffee-goes-feel-bad/

    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/09/29/your-friday-dose-of-woo-coffee-doing/
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
    silverspeck, barbc56, wdb and 5 others like this.
  5. douglasmich

    douglasmich

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    I never claimed any of the research was satisfactory, if you had read my post you would have seen that.

    Also this is the ALTERNATIVE THERAPIES section.

    And thanks for linking some big Pharma mouthpiece blogs.

    I guess i should stop coffee enemas and go back to a state of severe brainfog, depression and pain and stop being able to take rifaxamin due to the herx that the CEs have stopped.

    I cannot drink coffee due to the anxiety, but a CE is like a benzo.

    This is an alternative therapies section & thread. Please don't spoil this thread as i know many here have benefitted. If you don't want to do them because some bigpharma mouth piece sites say so then don't, even though their fear mongering is absolutely ridiculous.

    "Could cause burns" what a ridiculous reason.
    Must be 100% useless that it was in the merck manual at one stage... because that book is for quacks
     
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  6. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    All you have to do is explain what symptoms it's relieved, what your procedure is, and for how long you've felt better. Other people are free to respond, and that doesn't mean they will "spoil the thread".

    Going to make a cuppa joe right now.
     
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  7. douglasmich

    douglasmich

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    By "spoiling the thread" i mean turning it into a silly debate over if they a useful or not, using big Pharma endorsed blogs and not self experimentation to make a judgement.

    If i was looking for scientific criticism I wouldn't have put it in the "alternative " section, which is obviously for treatments that have little scientific basis, but potential benefit that's portrayed by anecdotes
     
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  8. Kina

    Kina

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    I read your post and found that it contains a lot of erroneous information and was responding to that.

    Just because a thread is in the 'Alternatives Therapies' forum doesn't mean it is exempt from discussing the medical value of the therapy and the science behind it. It is entirely reasonable to respond with information that refutes the claims made in a thread. What if a member came along and started a post that suggested an alternative therapy that is both harmful and dangerous, is nobody allowed to speak out about that just because a post is in the 'Alternative Therapies' section.

    Members are allowed to discuss a posted topic in any manner they want as long as it is on-topic and doesn't involve rule breaches. You posted some 'science', I chose to address that -- so not off-topic, and definitely not a rule breach

    I am not sure what Big Pharma has to do with it and I am not sure how being sceptical of alternative treatments or presenting science that refutes something translates into 'big Pharma mouthpiece blogs'. I prefer to look at the information contained in the blogs rather than judge the writer of the blog. A pharmacist is an author of one of the blogs and if you look further into the content he discusses some are related to actually going against big pharma by addressing the uselessness and over-prescription of some medications. This thread is about coffee enemas not about the evils of Big Pharma, so let's not turn it into that.

    Nobody said you should stop taking coffee enemas.

    Whatever the route of administration, caffeine will have the same effect. Caffeine is known to cause insomnia, restlessness, increased heart rate, nervousness... . This will occur via taking by mouth or via the rectum. Caffeine can have really deleterious effects of people with ME.

    Route of administration by mouth --> caffeine is absorbed from the proximal small intestine --> superior mesenteric vein --> the portal vein.

    Route of administration by rectum --> hemorrhoidal veins -->inferior mesenteric vein --> portal vein

    Drugs are administered by various routes -- by mouth, intravenously, by the rectum for various reasons - usually speed of delivery or one route has advantage over another -- this doesn't change the action of a drug. For example, suppositories for nausea are given because the patient can't tolerated any thing by mouth -- end effect whether by mouth or in a suppository = suppression of the nausea.

    It's important for those who can't tolerate drugs, supplements etc to know that they will potentially be affected, depending on dose, by the caffeine in an enema. I am not saying that you are not getting the effect you are experiencing. The point is that caffeine has the same effect on the majority of people. For some, the effect of a small dose of caffeine can cause jitteriness, increased heart rate which can cause severe issues with a person with ME. I believe there is some genetics involved re: how caffeine is processed and affects the body. For example, my mother can drink coffee before bed and be able to fall asleep immediately. I, on the other hand, can't drink coffee after about 2 pm or else I will be up for most the night. Reading that caffeine via rectum has a benzo effect on you might mislead some to believing that the effect is experienced by all, which it clearly isn't.

    Referring to "big pharma mouth piece sites" and "fear mongering" isn't necessary. The links provided some good science that directly refutes the information you provided in your first post.
    The results of a coffee enema = rectum --> portal vein. True. What are the toxins being released via the bile? I think the big piece that is totally missed by those that promote the use of coffee enemas is that you get more caffeine going straight to the liver by drinking it rather than by enema. And the liver is a major organ of cellular waste removal. Absorption through the rectum shunts a significant fraction of the absorbed caffeine away from a first pass through the liver which is why drinking it would be more beneficial. It is a large jump to claim a rat study from the 1920's supports using coffee enema's because how does the finding translates into what Gerson has stated. It doesn't. It's all extrapolation based on nothing.

    You can only have 100 percent of any thing -- 100 percent means all, not some. 600 - 700 percent is meaningless.

    Are there any independent papers other than what is cited that supports the above statements which appears to be pseudoscience nonsense produced by the Gerson Institute. Perhaps some research performed by a group of impartial scientists looking at the effects of coffee enemas on the body would be beneficial. There have been no independent studies, no peer reviews and really the big red flag is that the information comes from a person who sells coffee enemas as a means of a living. This is very important and relevant especially when the information being presented is so dismally wrong and/or skewed.

    Yes, the body's blood supply passes through the liver continuously as the liver is one of our 'detox' or waste removal organs. And this happens regardless where the caffeine enters the body or how caffeine acts on the body. It's not a coffee enema clearing the body -- it's the liver, kidneys, etc doing their usually work of removing waste from the body -- they do this on a continous basis unless of course you have liver or kidney damage.

    It's not so ridiculous to a person who has burned/scalded their rectum. Generally, enema's do come with risks that shouldn't be ignored or downplayed or ridiculed. I know the risks, learned them during my nursing career. Side-effects from enema use can include nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Not something that any person with ME should ignore -- these side-effects can cause a person with ME a lot of problems including a worsening of their symptoms. The risk of enemas include perforation of the rectum. Perforation of the rectum requires surgical repair and even damage to the internal organs. Constant use of enemas can interfere with the body's normal absorption of nutrients and fluids causing chemical imbalances.

    This is not fear mongering, it's reality.

    The Merck Manual is medical manual that condenses medical knowledge into practical information of use to a practicing physician. A 'quack' is a person who pretends to have the skill, knowledge, or qualifications that he/she does not possess. I very much doubt that the seller of coffee enemas has ever picked up the Merck Manual as the reliance is on the purveyance of unsubstantiated pseudoscience. The Merck Manual contains years and years of medical knowledge. Lots of what was once accepted as medically true has been replaced by newer knowledge coming from replicated studies, increased knowledge of the human body related to the invention of MRI's, CT scans etc. Information in the Merck Manual is relevant and up-to-date medical knowledge.

    Presenting coffee enemas as something they are not is fine and members are allowed to present and discuss information why the presented information is erroneous. There are always two sides to every conversation -- those who agree, those who disagree, those who will refute statements, those who do not ... . There is nowhere on Phoenix Rising that states members are not allow to post different views, or state that the information being presented is erroneous. Just because one or a few members benefit from something they are doing, doesn't mean it is going to benefit all members. I think a discussion of the science, the pros and cons can benefit those who are considering trying something. I don't think added knowledge about any topic is hurting anybody. Alternative therapies have the least amount of research and when the science does exist why can't that be discussed. Anecdotes are always important but not the whole picture and in this case there is a lot of science that refutes the claims in the first post. Referring to biased big pharma references, accusations of spoiling the thread aren't really helpful. "Judgements" certainly can be made from balancing both the research with anecdotes. Often anecdotes lead to further research, it all starts from people noticing things.
    .
    In the end, members will take from a thread what they want. Better to have lots of information rather than just a little.
     
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  9. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I agree. Enemas stimulate that colonic muscle to contract. If the wall is weak or the gut partially obstructed it can rupture. You then have faeces throughout the abdomen and no matter how clever a surgeon you have you are dead by tomorrow night. I have seen it happen in A and E. In fact, a past dean of our medical school died this way. He was an anesthetist and after having a colon washout he had he said to his wife - 'I know I have faecal peritonitis - I have seen it so often before - it is time for us to say goodbye.' He was dead by the next night.
     
  10. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    If this is the case, then I am slightly alarmed that my GP sent me a prescription for predsol enemas daily for 7 days without seeing me and when he knew I had never done this before. There is also no warning of this in the patient information leaflet, which only contains information about the risks of prednisolone and NOTHING about the risk of enemas.
     
  11. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    Predsol enemas are not irritant and of small volume. I suspect they are pretty safe. The problem is when the enema contains a stimulant like phosphate or caffeine. All the same, I would never have prescribed an enema of any sort without a direct consultation. I learnt the lesson as a surgical houseman dealing with disasters in the middle of the night.
     
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  12. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    Thanks for this information. Unfortunately GP's don't like coming out to visit severe ME patients at home - I consider myself lucky to be able to get a phone consult, but im aware its not adequate.
     
  13. douglasmich

    douglasmich

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    3 deaths from coffee enemas reported from all time.

    How many deaths from properly prescribed pharmaceutical drugs per YEAR?

    100,000.

    Yet no "science based " blog bats an eye

    You guys Crack me up.
     
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  14. Kina

    Kina

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    Don't know where you got the three deaths thing. I doubt that the family of those people who died 'cracked' up over their loved ones death. Since you seem to have a deep seated hatred for anything mainstream re: medicine, Big Pharma etc -- here's an article written by a person who is not a big Pharma mouth-piece.

    http://www.thepaleomom.com/2015/06/coffee-enemas-what-the-science-says-versus-what-youve-heard.html
     
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  15. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    Useful to know that coffee enemas do indeed cause deaths.
    I think you need to work on your denominators a bit .
     
  16. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    I'm a little confused. Your original post borrowed heavily from the language of science, and invited readers to "ask any questions". When following posters tried to continue the discussion on a scientific basis, you criticise them for doing that and switch to anecdotes as a basis for your belief in enemas. Then a poster contributes an anecdote:

    Which I find quite persuasive, don't you?
     
  17. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    It's not just the number of deaths that are important for judging risks. More people are on prescriptions than those who take coffee enemas. Therefore you would expect the number to be higher in the former than the latter. However, the percentage of adverse events will give you a clearer idea of what is really happening.

    Patients on prescription drugs are taking medication for health conditions so adverse events/deaths would again be expected to be larger. Also these events may be from the health condition and not the actual pharmaceutical. The two can be easily conflated.

    There are other of factors that are important to consider when it comes to evaluating data.

    http://blogs.plos.org/absolutely-ma...things-to-know-about-data-on-adverse-effects/
     
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  18. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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  19. silverspeck

    silverspeck

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    Gastrointestinal Quackery: Colonics, Laxatives, and More

    Proctocolitis Caused by Coffee Enemas

    Colonic irrigation and the theory of autointoxication: a triumph of ignorance over science.

    Starbutts, or: How is it still a thing that people are shooting coffee up their nether regions?
     
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  20. u&iraok

    u&iraok Senior Member

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    I think it's your use of the word 'quack', a loaded word. And quotes from the science-based medicine website and their love of dissing the 'woo'. They're they other end of extremism.
     
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