Coenzyme Q10 and Ubiquinol

[Lotus97]

The topic of this thread is anything related to coenzyme Q10 and ubiquinol, but I'll start off with some questions.

1. When CoQ10 is measured in the body, are they measuring ubiquinone or ubiquinol? My understanding is that ubiquinone (which most coenzyme q10 supplements are unless labeled ubiquinol) needs to be converted to ubiquinol to be used. That leads me to my second question
2. What factors affect how well a person converts ubiquinone to ubiquinol? I read something about people over 40 recommended to take ubiquinol instead of ubiquinone.
3. When someone naturally produces coenzyme q10 do they produce ubiquinone and then need to convert it to ubiquinol?

 

[Plum]

I took ubiquinol for a while. Was told it is in the form your body uses and doesn't need converting. Apparently you can take a much smaller amount of ubiquinol than coenzyme q10. It made me very wired and I didn't like it at all.

 

[Seven7]

I tried both, I do better on COQ10.

 

[Mij]

Lotus,

I'm looking at my CoQ10 results and the report reads as though they measured ubiquinone.

I take Ubiquinol, 100mg.

 

[Lotus97]

Ubiquinol is more potent, but it's also 4 times as expensive as coenzyme Q10 so I don't know if it's a better value. Right now I'm taking 100 mg CoQ10 3 times a day. I like splitting up my doses throughout the day (with a lot of my supplements, not just coq10). Vitacost is having a buy one get one half off sale on ubiquinol so I might get some.

I'd still like to know what they mean when they test a person's coenzyme q10 levels. Are they referring to ubiquinone or ubiquinol or does it depend on which test?

triffid113 was saying that a person's methylation status and thyroid condition play a part in converting ubiquinol (coenzyme q10) into ubiquinol which is part part of the reason why I'm considering switching to ubiquinol until I get methylation working properly.

You need to methylate to make SAMe; you need SAMe to make thyroxine; you need thyroxine to turn ubiquinone to ubiquinol (active CoQ10); the Kreb cycle needs ubiquinol to make energy (ATP)

 

[CatherineF]

I am taking 100mg of ubiquinol x 2 and see no effects unfortunately.

 

[sianrecovery]

I've taken it in both forms. Never saw dramatic results. Will try and find my myhill tests and see which form she tested it in.

 

[Lotus97]

One thing I should mention is that it's recommended coenzyme Q10/ubiquinone and ubiquinol with a fat containing meal to absorb them since they are fat-soluble.

I have read several customer reviews claiming ubiquinol worked better than coenzyme Q10. However, I came across an article that talks about the differences between ubiquinol and ubiquinone. I don't know enough to know whether all the information is correct, but the author seems to suggest that ubiquinol isn't much better than ubiquinone.
http://ubiquinolubiquinonedebate.blogspot.com/
I hope someone can go through the entire article and share whether everything is correct, but I'll post some of what the person says. The do it in a true/false format to refute certain claims. I'll just post what the person says is true, but if someone reads the article it can be sort of confusing since the person states claims that are both fact and fabrication.

• The oxidized Ubiquinone form of CoQ10 is synthesized in the body's cells.
• Reduced CoQ10 is highly unstable in the contents of the stomach and is converted to oxidized CoQ10 before absorption.
• CQ10 can be converted from the reduced to oxidized form and vise versa in the body as needed.
• Ubiquinone and Ubiquinol, being redox pairs, are easily converted from one form to the other in the body. For example, when exogenous Ubiquinone is absorbed in the intestines it is converted to Ubiquinol in the absorption cells, the lymph, or the blood. Since CoQ10 is not used to produce energy in the lymph system or blood, it is understandable why this conversion takes place to fulfill the need for antioxidant protection in the circulation. On the other hand, in the inner membrane of the mitochondria where energy is made, the oxidized form of CoQ10 (Ubiquinone) is in great demand. Here the reduced Ubiquinol form is rapidly converted to the oxidized Ubiquinone form.
• The two hydroxyl groups on the Ubiquinol compound results in its stronger bonding with water and helps explain why it is so much more bioavailable than Ubiquinone. This bonding does make Ubiquinol slightly more water soluble than Ubiquinone. However, the molecule is still lipophilic and is absorbed as a lipid.
• The data on ubiquinol state that its bioavailability is 300 percent more than that of the oxidized dry powder products. Most dissolved, liposome, micelle and nanoparticle CoQ10 products claim to have a 260 to 350 percent greater bioavailability than oxidized dry powder CoQ10.
• Ubiquinone is a cofactor in the inner membrane of the mitochondria for the synthesis of energy (ATP). Since the body does not store energy (ATP), it must be rapidly produced through an oxidative phosphorlation process. CoQ10 is positioned between NADH and Cyto-Chrome C in the inner membrane and acts as cofactor stimulation to all three mediators to give up electrons to run the electron transport through complexes I-IV in this system. This function is specific to Ubiquinone in that no other molecule can replace Ubiquinone in this process. However, Ubiquinone and Ubiquinol as a redox pair form the Q Cycle in which they act to conserve each other in this process.
• Ubiquinol is an antioxidant throughout the body. This is especially true in the cell membranes and those of the cell organelles. In these membranes CoQ10 may well be the primary lipophilic molecule essential for the prevention of lipid peroxidation resulting in cell damage and eventually cell death. Outside the cell and organelle membrane and in the presence of other lipophilic and hydrophilic antioxidants, Ubiquinol may recycle other antioxidants such as vitamin E and C.
• Ubiquinol protects the body against toxic oxidative reactions. It also recycles Ubiquinone in the synthesis of energy.
• Ubiquinol functions in the body as an antioxidant and in the recycling of Ubiquinone, Vitamin E and Vitamin C. Ubiquinone, through its synthesis of energy, is involved in all body processes requiring energy: energy synthesis, active transport, membrane and nucleotide stability, synthesis of enzymes, coenzymes, hormones, neuro-transmitter synthesis and reuptake, cillary activity in the upper respiratory systems, all muscle contractile functions, sperm production and motility, deactivation of muscle contraction, pumping action of sweat and other cutaneous glands, etc. In fact, Ubiquinone is possibly the hub around which life processes revolve in the human body.

One thing to mention is that the article was written in 2007 and the person said there were no studies published in peer-reviewed scientific literature. There were some studies mentioned in wikipedia, but I don't know if they were published in peer-reviewed scientific literature. Nor do I understand the signficance of being published in peer-reviewed literature.

From wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubiquinol

Dr. Peter Langsjoen, a leading CoQ10 scientist and cardiologist based out of Tyler, Texas, has published research comparing effects of ubiquinone (oxidized, spent form) and ubiquinol (antioxidant form) on heart failure patients. The subjects in the study were classified as having NYHA Class IV congestive heart failure and being on maximal medical therapy. The patients were being administered a mean amount of 450 mg ubiquinone per day. Their blood levels of CoQ10 ranged from 0.9 to 2.0 mcg/mL plasma (mean value of 1.4 mcg/mL), an amount that the researcher considered subtherapeutic. Subjects were then switched over to 450 mg ubiquinol per day, and the follow up data from six of the subjects showed mean blood values of CoQ10 rose from 1.4 mcg/mL to 4.1 mcg/mL. In addition to the significant increase in plasma CoQ10, ejection fraction increased nearly twofold from 24% to 45%. The ejection fraction is an assessment method that measures the ability of the heart’s ventricles to pump blood. While many factors can impact the ejection fraction including gender and method utilized for calculation, the typical healthy adult exhibits an ejection fraction of 60-65%. Additionally, beneficial effects in heart function could be demonstrated clinically, as subjects had an average improvement from NYHA Class IV to Class II.[7][8] Based upon the recent clinical experience by Dr. Langsjoen, the therapeutic plasma CoQ10 levels are now considered to be >3.5 μg/ml, which is a significantly higher blood value than the >2.5μg/ml target in the past. In this study, there were no adverse effects of ubiquinone or ubiquinol, nor any drug interaction including patients on coumadin.

Some preliminary information indicates that ubiquinol may be involved in the aging process, as scientists have evaluated the ubiquinone and ubiquinol blood levels in subjects of different age groups. Not only do aged subjects have reduced CoQ10 biosynthesis, their ability to convert ubiquinone to ubiquinol is also diminished.[13] The specific alignment of ubiquinol was recently investigated by creating unilamellar vesicles containing ubiquinol to probe the antioxidant’s position in cellular membranes. Based on the fluorescenceexposure to the vesicles, the scientists concluded that ubiquinol distributes closer to the cell membrane surface rather than the interior hydrophobic region of the membranes.[14]

Another study took a comparative look at the protective effects of ubiquinone and ubiquinol in rodents administered MPTP (1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine), a neurotoxin that induces changes similar to those found in idiopathic Parkinson’s disease.
MPTP is selectively toxic to cells of the substantia nigra, which are specialized cells in the brain stem involved in motor control and dopamine neurotransmitter synthesis. While both forms offered protection again MTPT-induced toxicity, ubiquinol exerted a stronger effect.[17]

Scientists have initiated a series of studies to examine the effects of CoQ10 on gene expression. In silico analysis of hundreds of genes have revealed CoQ10 to affect 17 different genes, which are functionally connected by four different cellular signalling pathways: G-protein coupled receptors, KAK/STAT, integrin, and beta-arrestin.[28] Researchers involved in that study subsequently performed detailed investigations with the ubiquinol form. An in vitro investigation utilizing a human monocyte cell line (THP-1) exposed to a stimulator of inflammation called lipopolysaccharide (LPS) showed ubiquinol inhibited the release of proinflammatory substances, specifically cytokine TNF-α pro-inflammatory chemokines RANTES (normal T-call expressed and secreted) and MIP1-α (macrophage inflammatory protein).[29] The scientists observed ubiquinol to exert a stronger effect on these inflammation-mediators than ubiquinone.
Further research along these lines demonstrate some of these genes related to the inflammation process to be redox-sensitive. An in-vivo study was conducted utilizing both ubiquinone or ubiquinol on an accelerated aging rodent model strain called SAMP1. A variety of different tissues (liver, heart, brain, and kidney) were analyzed through microarray-based whole genomic expression profile. One of the findings was that ubiquinol was more effective than ubiquinone in raising CoQ10 levels in the liver (this effect of greater bioavailability has also been observed in humans). A review of the genome expression profiles on the liver samples revealed a ubiquinol-specific effect for genes in the PPAR-α(peroxisome proliferator activated receptor alpha) signaling pathway. Interestingly, these ubiquinol-sensitive genes are primarily involved in cholesterol synthesis (for example, 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-coenzyme A), lipid metabolism (FABP5), and lipoprotein metabolism (PLTP). These effects were specific for ubiquinol, as the regulation of PPAR-α genes was not observed with ubiquinone.[30]

One study examined the relationship between ubiquinol and blood lipids in patients with Coronary Artery Disease. Specifically, the scientists sought to determine if a relationship exists between the extent of stenosis (narrowing of blood vessels) and the concentrations of ubiquinol and blood lipids. Often, CoQ10 is studied in relation to blood lipids, since in the blood it is almost entirely found in lipoproteins (in particular low-density lipoprotein cholesterol LDL-C).[31] In turn, lipoproteins package lipid soluble cholesterol for circulation in the water soluble blood (cholesterol is not found free), and hence the association between CoQ10, cholesterol, and lipoproteins. The subjects were not administered any ubiquinol orstatins, thus providing a point of differentiation from other studies where supplementation took place. In order to quantify the extent of stenosis, the subjects underwent coronary angiography. Of the 36 total subjects, 20 were qualified as negative (less than 50% stenosis) while 16 subjects were positive (greater than 70% stenosis). The findings revealed the ubiquinol/lipids ratio was significantly higher in the low-stenosis group; conversely, the high-stenosis group had significantly lower values of the ubiquinol/lipids ratio.[32] The scientists remarked that the ubiquinol/lipid ratio appears to be a sensitive factor for marking the progress of atherosclerotic changes. While this was not an intervention trial, an association did emerge between the ubiquinol/lipids ratio and the extent of stenosis.

 

[L'engle]

I've tried both kinds. Ordinary CoQ10 made me wired and have trouble sleeping. Ubiquinol made me feel so weird (weird as opposed to wired) I never wanted to try it again. I have to stay away from anything that causes wiredness as it just makes me more run-down.

 

[Lotus97]

I've heard coenzyme q10 mentioned as a methyl donor. Would it be enough to contribute to overmethylation for sensitive individuals?

 

[perchance dreamer]

I used 100 MG of ubiquinol for a long time. I could never tell any effect one way or another.

I switched to a crystal-free COQ10 instead. It's supposed to be highly absorbable. Interestingly, I can only do 50 MG of it, or it affects my sleep.

I still can't tell any effect with it, but I take it hoping there's some benefit anyway. When I tried 100 MG, I did have more energy.

 

[adreno]

Abstract
The bioavailability of a single, 100 mg, dose of reduced Coenzyme Q10 (CoQH-CF) and Coenzyme Q10 formulation was compared in individuals of >60 years. Significantly higher (P < 0.001) plasma concentrations were demonstrated for the CoQH-CF formulation at 5, 6, 8, 12, 24, 48 and 72 h post-dose compared to the CoQ10 formulation. The area under the curve (AUC) of reduced and total Coenzyme Q10 was significantly higher (P < 0.001) in subjects administered CoQH-CF resulting in 4.3-fold higher plasma AUC0–72 h (430% increase) in subjects receiving CoQH-CF compared to subjects receiving Coenzyme Q10. Oxidized Coenzyme Q10 in plasma was higher (P < 0.001) in subjects receiving CoQH-CF compared to subjects receiving Coenzyme Q10 resulting in a 3.3-fold higher plasma AUC0–72 h (329% increase). Total CoQ10 reached maximum plasma concentrations 15.5 ± 19.6 h after supplementation with CoQH-CF and 26.5 ± 25.8 h after supplementation with Coenzyme Q10, respectively. Thus, reduced Coenzyme Q10 liquid soft gel formulation was found to be superior to the commercial formulation of Coenzyme Q10 for bioavailability.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S175646460800011X

 

[jimells]

I started taking Co Q10 (the regular over-the-counter kind) last summer after I found a review of migraine preventatives (sorry, I can't find it again). The review reported pretty good results with Co Q10. After two or three months I noticed a decrease in severity and frequency of migraine attacks. The migraines continue to improve, especially when I manage to avoid PEM.

A big part of the improvement seems to include a reduction in light and sound sensitivity - I think of it as turning down the ''sensitivity control knob' in my brain. I used to wake up and put in earplugs (the kind used by musicians - they let low volume sounds through) until my cockatiels finished giving me their morning greetings. I did this every day, even on days when I didn't have a migraine attack. It's now been quite a few months since I've last used the earplugs.

I am very disturbed that no doctor in ten years of being sick has ever suggested Co Q10. They are, of course, anxious to get me hooked on some horrible antiseizure medication. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[adreno]

It's settled; ubiquinol is superior to ubiquinone:

Abstract
The bioavailability of the reduced form of coenzyme Q10 (ubiquinol) was compared to oxidized coenzyme Q10 (ubiquinone) with identical soft gel capsule excipients by measuring steady state plasma coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) levels in 12 healthy volunteers. After baseline levels of ubiquinol, ubiquinone, total CoQ10, α-tocopherol, and total cholesterol were obtained, follow-up lab work was performed after 4 weeks of 200 mg/day of ubiquinone, after 4 weeks washout, and after 4 weeks of 200 mg/day of ubiquinol. Plasma total CoQ10 increased from 0.9 to 2.5 µg/mL (P < 0.001) after 4 weeks of ubiquinone and increased from 0.9 to 4.3 µg/mL (P < 0.001) after 4 weeks of ubiquinol. Total CoQ10/cholesterol ratio increased from 0.2 to 0.7 µmol/mmol after 4 weeks of ubiquinone and increased from 0.2 to 1.2 µmol/mmol after 4 weeks of ubiquinol. Both the increase in plasma CoQ10 and the increase in CoQ10/cholesterol ratio were significantly better after ubiquinol (P < 0.005 and P < 0.001, respectively) than after ubiquinone indicating superior bioavailability. Plasma ubiquinol/total CoQ10 ratio increased from baseline during ubiquinol supplementation (P < 0.005) and remained unchanged after ubiquinone supplementation. No side effects were noted in this study.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpdd.73/full

 

[TheWig]

Ubiquinol is the form you want to supplement. It's more expensive, but its the form that the body can absorb and utilize far more readily.