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Co EnzymeQ-10 for the Repair of Cell Mitochondria

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Mya Symons, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. Mya Symons

    Mya Symons Mya Symons

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    I have read that the inability of cells to pick up Co EnzymeQ-10 can damage cell Mitochondria and; thus, the cells can no longer pick up the energy they need to function. Has anyone here ever tried Co Enxyme Q-10 supplements and have they worked to reduce fatigue? If so, can you recommend a good brand? It is my understanding that they don't work in a powdered form because the cells won't pick it up unless absorbed in oil. Co-Enzyme Q10 is very expensive and I do not want to buy a brand that does not work. So, if you know of a good brand, could you please pass the info. on to me? Please and Thank you.

    Also, I have tried L-Carnitine supplements and they work great for energy, but make me nauseaus. Does anyone know where I might pick up slow release L-Carnitine?

    Thank you for the help.
  2. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    I've tried two types of CoQ10 - ubiquinone and ubiquinol. Can't remember the brands I'm afraid. Neither had any effect at all and neither did L-carnitine.

    Jenny
  3. lucy

    lucy Senior Member

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    I hope this post does not come twice, as the first is gone somewhere. I have tried powdered ubiquinone and ubiquinone with oil, vitamin E and pepper extract with no noticable results (good or bad). I suppose it is like giving a pair of glasses to a blind person. From all the supplements I tried, only fish oil with omega3 was noticably beneficial - it helped to calm down my extrasystoles, which were very strong, frightening and disturbing. Magnesium helped against cramps.
  4. Tembo

    Tembo Australia

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    I cannot get by without CoQ10 - I find it makes a significant difference to my energy and I really feel it after being off it for 7days. Im not sure what brands you have but I use one made by Bioceuticals. The prices of CoQ10 have recently come down in Australia by under half the original price - I wonder if some companies here would ship to you?
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi Mya

    There was a study that showed that most people with CFS are CoQ10 deficient. We need it, period. However, it is not sufficient to reverse our symptoms. Many patients do feel better on CoQ10, I am one of them. Some don't notice the effect until after they have been on it for a while then stop. The crash can often be felt then. Brand and dosage are very problematic - you need to find a health practitioner with experience in this area.

    Personally, I have used EnQten, but it is now very hard to get since the manufacturing company was bought by an asian syndicate - every chemist used to stock it, now it is only sold in Hong Kong the last time I looked for it. CoQ10 is also a very powerful antioxidant, and works with vitamin C, glutathione, Vit E and lipoic acid in a network. Its antioxidant effects will only be realized when you are not also deficient in any of these. Again you need to speak to someone knowledgeable in this area.

    Don't just take it in an oil based capsule, eat something containing fat at the same time. This will maximize absorption.

    Like with every other product, not everone will get good results. You can only decide if its cost effective for you after trying it.

    I also do not respond to cheap or ineffective CoQ10. I tried a lot of brands before finding EnQten, but it is certainly not the only good brand out there. Sorry, but I can't advise you about brands in general.

    Bye
    Alex
  6. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Dosage is important too...

    I agree with Alex. Brand, dosage, and other co-factors are very important (including l-carnitine). I've been running low on CoQ10 for more than a month now...should finally be getting some in the mail today I hope -- and always definitely notice a dramatic decline. Leg and feet muscles get very sore a lot faster, and get quite twitchy and weak as well. I can look back to diaries written almost 10 years ago and find l-carnitine always helps.

    And they definitely work together (I think Dr. Myhill and others recommends the two, along with d-ribose (which hasn't tested well for me) and niacinamide to improve mitochondrial function).

    I'd be curious to know what dosages people are taking? I've needed 400mgs of coq10, and 2,000 of l-carnitine. Fortunately a cheaper brand of coq10 tested better for me than the pricier version (of which there are many).

    Dan
  7. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, all.

    For what it's worth, both carnitine and Co Q10 have been found to be low in CFS, and both require methylation for their synthesis. While supplementing them can give temporary improvement in mito function, according to my hypothesis, which now has considerable clinical support, fundamental correction of the mito dysfunction will require lifting the partial block in the methylation cycle and raising glutathione.
    That's what the Simplified Treatment Approach is designed to do. More information on this is available at www.cfsresearch.org by clicking on CFS/M.E. and then on my name.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  8. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    I recovered from a bad crash once with Co Q-10. I think the important thing often is the dosage, to restore whatever functional deficiencies in mitochondrial function exist and can be restored, and then there's a ceiling above which you won't get much benefit, but maybe even harm.

    In my case, I had 200mg. caps, and if memory serves had been taking half twice a day even during the crash, but it wasn't having any noticeable effect. Or to clarify, I had been taking it for months/years before that and had gotten improvement from it, which I noticed would gradually diminish over a few weeks when I stopped taking it, and so I started taking it again and just stayed at that 100/100 "plateau" or "ceiling" dose.

    A few weeks after the crash and having gone through a bunch of things that didn't seem to help, I thought I would increase the coQ10 to 200mg to see if that would help, and right away within about an hour I felt 75 percent better. That's with my @ss dragging for weeks. There was a definite improvement, no question at all. Then I would take 100mg again in the afternoon, 200/100 again the next couple of days until I was much better, basically back to baseline, then gradually I decreased back down to 100/100 again and maintained there. So it definitely can have an effect, depending on what your particular metabolic profile or needs are.

    Now since the immune activation that worsened the CFS last year, and the CHF symptoms are also worse, I wouldn't dare take anywhere near that amount. I just started taking about 20mg. a couple days ago, because too much and the heart starts pounding a little for a few hours, and then when it wears off there's a negative rebound effect where the heart feels much weaker for a few days. So especially if you seem to have the cardiac/left ventricular, etc. dysfunction that Cheney talks about, you have to take it very cautiously. I can totally understand why Cheney doesn't recommend it anymore. It can help, but it can also be a double edged sword and cause problems if you overload the pathway that apparently the co Q10 is activating (complex II or III, I think, maybe even IV a little, but I don't remember offhand). Maybe oxygen gets shunted off the ETC and causes the problems, or maybe it's a direct effect of the coQ, I don't really know. All the methylation blocks, etc. that Rich talks about are undoubtedly also implicated at some level, maybe even primarily. Fix those, and maybe even a few hundred mg. would be okay. With the immune CFS it doesn't seem to be, though - for me at least.

    Btw, after trying a bunch of different brands (Country Life and some "gelcap" type that I forget what brand it is are two that I remember), since then I've always used Jarrow Co Q10, because it worked the best and was the least expensive per mg. and seems to be of good quality. And those are powdered capsules, so I think (or rather, I know - for me, at least), that the idea that powdered forms are ineffective is not correct. That's not to say some other form of delivery might not be even more effective, but as long as the dosage is optimized (meaning to what the person requires, not to a particular milligram amount), the powdered form definitely works fine. I can detect the effects of even 10-20mg of the Jarrow, so I would say it's a good brand and powder is not a problem.
  9. Mya Symons

    Mya Symons Mya Symons

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    Thank you for all the good info. Mr. Kite, CHS is congestive heart failure, correct? I am so sorry you have to go through that. You metioned a cardiac left ventrical defect--do they have a link to information about that here? For years I have been treated for FMS with little mention of the CFS, so I do not know much about it?
  10. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    I've done well with the NOW brand, 120 mg at least.
  11. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Ubiquinone vs. Ubiquinol

    I've been doing some research regarding the two different forms of CoQ10, ubiquinone vs ubiquinol. Ubiquinone is apparently the form that is found in nature, and is then broken down within the body after it's consumed. It is also the form that has been used in numerous studies showing the efficacy of CoQ10 supplementation. In addition, it's claimed that ubiquinone is far more stable until ingested, having a shelf life of years.

    Ubiquinol is apparently formulated in the lab and proponents claim it's what ubiquinone is broken down into, making it far more absorbable. Critics say this form has never been used in studies, and so claims made as to it's efficacy is not based on these studies. It also supposedly has a much shorter shelf life, and breaks down rather quickly, since it is alcohol based (or something like that). Finally, proponents say this "more absorbable" form is especially important for those age 40 and older, due to compromised ability to break down the ubiquinone found in nature.

    Proponents of each (those with financial interests) claim their form is far more expensive (4x) to produce, and claim their product has your best interests at heart (giving you a more expensive product). I've visited several websites, each making any number of conflicting claims. So I finally went to Sarah Myhill's website, to get her take on things, as she recommends CoQ10 supplementation for PWCs. Unfortunately, she didn't differentiate between the two different forms available.

    At this point, I'm about to try the two different kinds, and try to determine from personal experience whether one might be preferable to the other. One website recommended taking both forms, saying they both might have advantages the other doesn't. My personal bias is that the original form might be better, as it's what has actually been tested in studies, whereas ubiquinol has not. Also, the last time I tried CoQ10, I used the NOW brand, and noticed my gums feeling much better within a short period of time. Apparently, if the bottle doesn't designate which form it contains, you should assume it ubiquinone, which is what I believe I received benefits from at that time.

    Does anybody have any in-depth knowledge and/or personal experience you could share regarding this rather fuzzy topic?
    :thumbsup:

    Wayne
  12. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    Don't know much about the two kinds. I take one by 'Enzymatic Therapy' that helps me sometimes. I think it does more when I'm above a certain health threshold. I guess because more is getting to the cells.
  13. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Ubiquinol in Heart Study

    OK, I just found a reference to ubiquinol being used in a study, so the above assertion I mentioned about it not being used in studies does not appear to be accurate.

  14. Tree

    Tree

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    I've taken ubiquinol and the original form, and not noticed any difference between the two. Lately, I've been taking ubiquinol because I fell for the "more easily absorbed" line. I take it at the same time as my fish oil at night, and E and A&D, and I take it with either a little olive oil or peanut butter, something with fat in it.

    It's one of those supplements that I definitely felt an improvement with when I first started taking it years ago. Not sure that I feel anything from it per se anymore, but if I stopped, I might. I use different brands, have never found a difference between them, really. I like the Jarrow a lot. Right now I'm using Bluebonnet ubiquinol, two of the 50 mgs per day. It's pricey, no matter who makes it.
  15. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    NOW brand too

    Hey Wayne!

    I've liked the NOW brand of CoQ10 and found it helpful. I have taken other brands and forms too, but none of them seems as effective. It does help the gums, immune system and energy, for me. But Cheney seems opposed to this supplement, so we never get just one answer!

    Sing
  16. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    Now I am just re-reading page 1 of this thread and finding I said the same thing already. Excuse me! I need to order some CoQ10!

    Sing
  17. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    It is amazing for me. I see a big difference with it. As with all supplements. The dose and brands are imporatant. My doctor has me taking 120mg. Two doses. Morning and afternoon.
  18. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    I haven't tried taking it twice in a day. I'll try it and see if I get insomnia.
  19. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    Just start with a small amount in the afternoon if you add from just taking in the am. I have had no insomnia. The dose has to be right. I take 60 mg in the morning and almost 60 in the afternoon, sometimes less. I use liquid/gel in the am and powder in the afternoon.


  20. Michael Dessin

    Michael Dessin Senior Member

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    Someone mentioned taking these with COQ10 earlier in the thread "C, glutathione, Vit E and lipoic acid"

    If your underlying conditions have not been corrected there is a VERY likely chance of getting very sick with these

    Also Coq10 might make some sick, may provide temporary benefits until other issues are corrected

    Idebenone is the best form of Coq10

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