1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
The Fable known as The PACE Trial
Graham, Janelle and Bob, have once again excelled themselves with their latest take on the 'poisoned apple' that was the PACE Trial...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Closed thread my reply *2 new* letters, Myra McClue, Annette Whittemore

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by flybro, May 22, 2010.

  1. flybro

    flybro Senior Member

    Messages:
    581
    Likes:
    5
    pluto
    This thread *2 new* letters, Myra McClue, Annette Whittemore was clsoed as I was composing my reply, so here it is in its own thread.

    this takes you to the final page.
    http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/sho...ll=1#post83485

    Would you not be wiser to advise the complainers to ignore the offensive poster, by using the ignore button.

    I find it hard to understand why this is not advised as a first option, or perhaps it is,

    as has been so regularly mentioned we are not privvy to the behind the scenes info.

    If people have problems with a thread or a poster they don't have to be there, there are other threads, they cud start their own thread.

    I've traded insults with some good friends here, we call it banter. We do it mainly in chat, which is free from moderation most of time, but out here on the forums, we have to be oh so careful.



    again why let themselves be hounded, why don't they just use the ignore button.

    Cort I'm sure you are very greatful to your team and stand behind them 100% as it should be.

    However that team effects the mood of the forum, I have felt bullied into silence on numerous occasions by the prevailing mood, worse than that is I have felt cowardly for not speaking up. Most unlike me.

    Perhaps you need to re-asses your team options.
  2. shrewsbury

    shrewsbury member

    Messages:
    1,540
    Likes:
    49
  3. oerganix

    oerganix Senior Member

    Messages:
    611
    Likes:
    4
    I have notified the moderators that I consider that closing of OUR thread to be harassment of forum members by a moderator who is not impartial.
  4. bel canto

    bel canto Senior Member

    Messages:
    187
    Likes:
    169
    i agree with oerganix on this and will lodge my own complaint. What an inappropriate use of a moderator's "power" when no one has been doing more than minor sarcasm in reply to what appears to be me to be major provocation! This leaves an incredibly bad feeling about this forum. And a moderator who "disciplines" us for being bad children. What an insult to all of us!
  5. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

    Messages:
    867
    Likes:
    22
    Well, this is ridiculous. So two posters were arguing. Does that mean the rest of us have to suffer? Collective punishment?? I don't care what they were arguing about. I can ignore anything that doesn't interest me. The approach the Admin team has chosen is to shut off all however-many-other members there are on this forum from any potential discussion on that thread.

    I think there is also a potential problem with the 'report post' button approach. If even a few forum members don't like a particular line of argument or even a particular poster, they can keep flagging posts that make that argument or that are by that poster. This flagging could be done by people who are trolls, or have some other agenda. There are so many new members that it must be very difficult for the Admin team to keep tabs on who is complaining about who.

    If those reporting the posts in this case really thought they had the forum's best interests in mind, I think they should now see they were clearly mistaken. And they need to grow a thicker skin.

    (Btw, regarding the comments about cultural differences - I happen to be American, raised mostly in California, and I think my skin is AT LEAST as thick as any Brit's! AMERICANS ARE NOT PANSIES.)
  6. flybro

    flybro Senior Member

    Messages:
    581
    Likes:
    5
    pluto
    Thanx SB i fixed the link,

    and thanx oreganix

    I really dont want the person that closed the thread to have any space in my life, and I have no wish to accidently run into her moderation or opinion.

    and I wont be bullied into silence again either.

    I shall try to put her on ignore, if it dosnt work I'll ask Cort if he can tweak something so I can.

    EXACTLY
  7. flybro

    flybro Senior Member

    Messages:
    581
    Likes:
    5
    pluto
    and now we have this

    from here http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/sh...ums-How-it-works&p=83630&viewfull=1#post83630

    I'm no longer too conscientious to be causing flak,

    I hope everyone rembers to suck up to the right people, becasue they sure seem to need it.
  8. Roy S

    Roy S former DC ME/CFS lobbyist

    Messages:
    427
    Likes:
    401
    Illinois, USA
    Just to be clear about where this is coming from, Martlett just wrote in the thread about rules:

    "... at Cort's request, we will be taking action each and every time the rules are breached.

    Again, please remember that you were presumed to have agreed to the forum rules when you joined."

    I'll add that those rules were not created until after I joined. They are also subject to a wide range of arbitrary application.

    From the beginning of CFS and CFS advocacy a small number of people have gotten into positions of power and caused big problems because they can't handle power. Patients don't put up with that much.
  9. awol

    awol *****

    Messages:
    417
    Likes:
    0
    I actually don't entirely understand why everyone is getting so upset over this. It is more this kind of dragged out, angry discussion that leads to people getting pissed off and leaving, not threads being closed. If a thread is closed, a new one can be started that has a title related to the subject of discussion. On this thread, for example, we are clearly no longer talking about McClure and Whittemore's letters. It is therefore a good thing that the old thread was shut and this one was launched - although a more accurate title might have been good.

    I remember once while researching African cities that I joined a forum on various places in Africa. That forum was a nightmare because it inevitably devolved into a place where white supremacists could launch awful attacks without accountability, and various people of different ethnicities could spread their negative stereotypes and superstitions about the others. Internet forums DO need to be moderated. Especially when no real names or personal details are required to join.

    I would also like to remind you all of the never ending spectacle of American politics. You guys are so entrenched in mutually distrustful camps over there that the rest of the world looks at you with a bit of pity. Compromise and civility are ESSENTIAL for coming up with solutions to social problems, but in American politics, because of a complete lack of restrictions on what people can get away with saying about others this has become almost impossible for you. Free speech only works when combined with empathy and respect.

    As for reporting, I agree that people doing the complaining should be tracked a bit as well, because it could very well be true that good discussions would be ruined by unaccountable trolls or prudes or whatever who just happen to not like debate. Some statements are actually idiocy, and may need to be called such (with some attempt at tact) if the threads are going to remain informative. This should be seen as quality control, not personal attacks.

    Aside from that, we can only hope that our moderators exercise good judgement. And while they are mostly, in my opinion doing a good job, we also have to understand that they are VOLUNTEERS, that they are doing their best, and that they, like us, suffer from a terrible disease that makes them irritable, foggy brained, and possibly impatient.

    EDIT: If offended please read later posts before calling me on it!
  10. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

    Messages:
    2,597
    Likes:
    53
    Awol,

    I would ask you to please reconsider this remark. I am not an American, so do not take this personally, but I find this unnecessary, irrelevant, off topic and disrespectful of the American members on the forum.
  11. jspotila

    jspotila Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes:
    573
  12. awol

    awol *****

    Messages:
    417
    Likes:
    0
    Ok, I can see why offense might be taken, my wording was a bit harsh I am sorry to any Americans reading. But nevertheless, the subject and tone of this discussion has cultural characteristics, that, having lived both inside and outside the US are easy to recognize. Free speech is defended passionately in the US and that is great, however there is relatively little reflection there on its occasional social costs. I love free speech. I hate hate speech, slander, and the deliberate spreading of lies. Everywhere else I have ever lived has more checks in place to prevent these things. Debate, therefore that seems normal to Americans is definitely NOT normal and very uncomfortable for people from other cultural backgrounds.

    I should add that I have never lived in the UK, so have no strange ideas on British attitudes towards civility and free speech. ;)

    It may well be that an unmoderated forum will result in a complete lack of interest on the part of people from more reserved cultural contexts because of this difference in attitude towards what can and should be said in such a context.
  13. akrasia

    akrasia Senior Member

    Messages:
    156
    Likes:
    179
    Originally Posted by awol
    I would also like to remind you all of the never ending spectacle of American politics. You guys are so entrenched in mutually distrustful camps over there that the rest of the world looks at you with a bit of pity. Compromise and civility are ESSENTIAL for coming up with solutions to social problems, but in American politics, because of a complete lack of restrictions on what people can get away with saying about others this has become almost impossible for you. Free speech only works when combined with empathy and respect.


    From the land of cuckoo clocks and minaret bans.
  14. awol

    awol *****

    Messages:
    417
    Likes:
    0
    Actually I recently wrote a paper on the horrible thing that is the minaret ban! I should say that I am not Swiss either, I just live here. In my humble opinion, the Swiss swing too far the other direction, inverse of American tendency caricaturized above.
  15. jace

    jace Off the fence

    Messages:
    855
    Likes:
    170
    England
    In the original post Flybro asked
    The ignore button just means you who pushed it cannot see the offending poster's post. Everyone else still can, and if you care passionately about the truth of whatever, then you are at a disadvantage of understanding of the rest of the thread. If you see what I mean.

    Seems to me we all, pretty much, care passionately, and that is half the problem.
  16. jace

    jace Off the fence

    Messages:
    855
    Likes:
    170
    England
    True. But I'm glad you saw my point as to why the ignore button is not the whole answer. When someone posts in a negative manner, repeatedly on a thread, it's an idea to check their profile. If they just joined, and all they do is post repeatedly and confrontationally on a limited range of threads - no fun threads, no personal experience - then their posts should be taken with a pinch of salt. Gerwyn does not fit this picture.
  17. flybro

    flybro Senior Member

    Messages:
    581
    Likes:
    5
    pluto
    The ignore function is there to protect the people that get upset by a persons style of posting.

    Its there to help us take control of things we find offensive.

    Also another thread can be started by anyone. We dont have to hang out on threads we find offensive.

    We are not stuck in a room with eachother.

    Why would I be continually sugesting using the ignore button? I ask myself.

    because this is a better option for all, including the mods and admin.

    If we had a mountain of moderate moderators I would not be recoomending using the ignore button so frequenly.

    i am a great beliver in moderation, I like the meaning of the word.

    that is what i expect from moderators, for them to moderate.
  18. Martlet

    Martlet Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes:
    3
    Near St Louis, MO
    We do track them, Awol. If members let us know that these people have come from other forums to cause trouble, we follow the links and read what they have written there. We do everything humanly possible to ensure that reported posts are coming from members in good standing and generally, any action is taken after some discussion unless what is posted is so egregious (racism, sexism and the like) that it needs to be immediately dealt with.
  19. ixchelkali

    ixchelkali Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,105
    Likes:
    263
    Long Beach, CA
    I'm sorry, but this makes me laugh. All you have to do to "get into a position of power" like Cort is to launch your own website, spend a few years providing analyses of developments and research that a number of people find balanced and worth reading, and then spend a whole lot of time, energy, and some money to create your own forum. All while dealing with ME/CFS and MCS. So anyone can do it, if they want to make the dedicated effort. It's not some cabal.
  20. Roy S

    Roy S former DC ME/CFS lobbyist

    Messages:
    427
    Likes:
    401
    Illinois, USA

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page