The power and pitfalls of omics part 2: epigenomics, transcriptomics and ME/CFS
Simon McGrath concludes his blog about the remarkable Prof George Davey Smith's smart ideas for understanding diseases, which may soon be applied to ME/CFS.
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Clonidine lower noradrenaline decrease anxiety

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by heapsreal, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    It might not be safe to assume high norepinephrine is causing your anxiety or other problems. In my case, norepinehprine is very low - and effectively raising it (with an SNRI) helps a lot with my symptoms.
     
  2. Gypsy

    Gypsy Senior Member

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    Thanks Valentijn. My Clonidine experiment is definitely over! I was wondering about my reaction to amitryptypline. It was prescribed for sleep, but kept me wide awake (10mgs). It was like adrenaline city, major stimulant type effect. So I am wondering what would happen if I tried a very low dose of amitryptyple in the mornings, such as 5mg? I can only assume it increase norephinephrine, and maybe I need more. My only reservation is, all Antidepressants I have tried have only worsened my sleep, including Effexor, which is an SNRI, and Prozac, plus a few others, I think Zoloft. This was years ago. Plus all the AD's which are supposed to help with sleep, do not help me at all. I have become VERY reluctant to mess with my brain chemistry, so I am torn. I feel like possibly ultra LOW doses of certain "brain" meds could help us, but it always seems to become an experiment we as patients have to undertake on our own.
     
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I don't know if it's that simple. Amitriptyline does have some effect on norepinephrine, but it also has a (bigger) effect on serotonin. My personal experience has been that I need to be REALLY careful with anything affecting serotonin, even though I'm deficient in that too.

    I think some people take an NRI and SSRI separately so doses can be adjusted independently of each other. Or there might be an SNRI that has just the right combination of action on each area :p Amitriptyline was a complete suck-fest for me. Didn't help with anything and made my ME symptoms worse, the same effect I get from other serotonin-increasing supplements.
     
  4. Gypsy

    Gypsy Senior Member

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    Really? See this is why we need our own personal pharmacologist to explain what meds do what and at what dosages! It is too difficult to figure it all out. Prozac, which definitely affects serotonin, turned me into an emotionless zombie. The amitryptyline also increased me heartrate (pretty common I guess?) so who knows where the stimulating effects came from. I just politely declined a prescription for Cymbalta for sleep. What!? Can someone explain how that would even possibly help with sleep?
     
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  5. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    That is a bit weird ... it hasn't been used for sleep that I know of. Maybe if pain or anxiety is keeping someone awake? It can cause somnolence as a side effect, but it can also cause insomnia :p
     
  6. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    SSRIs interfere with my sleep also, but they're the only thing that works for my depression.:confused: Thankfully, amitryptiline helps me sleep. I thought norepinephrine was a problem for me (and maybe it is), but I guess amitryptiline doesn't have a stimulating effect on me.
     
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi Lotus97

    Do you take both an SSRI and amitryptiline? I thought this was a dangerous combinations.

    Best,
    Sushi
     
  8. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I take an SSRI for depression and amitryptiline for sleep. Are you talking about serotonin syndrome?
     
  9. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Yes, that is the usual reason for warning people not to take them together.

    Sushi
     
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  10. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    Im glad this old thread has come up cause I never updated my post on it here. I did end up going onto Clonidine (for the kind of POTS I had) and for me this drug turned out great for my sleep even thou I didnt seem to have anxiety affecting it (but as I said I did have extremely high noradrenaline on my blood test results).

    Im now off of benzos, melatonin and doxylamine succinate combo I used to take for sleep and on this far safer drug.

    If you have high adrenaline showing up on your tests or swinging BP (going both low and high) do consider this drug for your sleep issues as it could help several things at once.
     
  11. xptriado

    xptriado Senior Member

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    @taniaaust1 I was wondering if you had high blood pressure?
    My blood pressure is perfect, but I have sleep problems and when I did the sleep study, I had frequent spikes of heart rate which coincided with arousal from sleep. The machine where I measure my blood pressure, says "possible cardiac arrythmia found". I tried it on someone else and did not say it. For me it says it everytime.

    Upon falling asleep, if the environment is even a slightly noisy, I will have what seems to be palpitations or higher heart rate/blood pressure, i dont know exactly what it is.

    I want to try clonidine, after reading my urinary norepinephrine coming high and after I read a study using it for sleep. I am wondering if you know if a low dose of clonidine will cause any significative lowering of heart rate or blood pressure?

    I have been using sometimes trazodone but I still seem to wake up after 5 hours and I think it's the mcpp metabolite working. Even at 25mg I get a stuffy nose, which tells me that it is working on alpha adrenergic.
     
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  12. xptriado

    xptriado Senior Member

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    I tried to find clonidine and i couldnt. Very hard to find this med around here.

    I just bought tizanidine but id also like to know if anyone tried prazosin or cyclobenzaprine (whicj i coildnt find either and is in clinical trials for sleep aid in fibromyalgia) and how these compare?
     
  13. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    I was given prazosin a while back and it did help take the edge off of the insane adrenaline. I got 1mg capsules but would usually only take half of it prior to bed. I hate to take more than i need.
     
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  14. Chriswolf

    Chriswolf Senior Member

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    Which ones have you tried?

    I made a thread in general symptoms related to just such a thing, would you be willing to offer some insight as to what were your most prominent symptoms?
     
  15. Chriswolf

    Chriswolf Senior Member

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    @heapsreal

    I've tried propranolol before for sleep issues and extreme headaches, it wasn't bad but it does have side effects that prohibited me from using it very often, it did resolve a fair number of symptoms however it did create some side effects.

    Generally speaking I did feel quite relaxed when I took it, I just couldn't do any driving while on it.

    Amusingly enough my problem appears to have reversed in the last year or so and now I'm starting to experience symptoms indicating low catecholamine influence.

    Apparently the rebound effect of clonidine can be pretty brutal, my doctor specifically didn't want me on it for that reason as I was put on it for headaches primarily and your blood pressure can shoot right back up quite badly on clonidine as opposed to propranolol.
     
  16. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I've posted on other threads that Strattera was the best for me for OI. But I took a bunch of others too. I hesitate to list them because each of us is different and I wouldn't want someone to request a med from their doctor without adequate testing. Each of us has a unique autonomic profile.
    Pretty much the list from the International Consensus Criteria, though at the time I tried clonodine, I was most troubled by dysautonomia.
     
  17. xptriado

    xptriado Senior Member

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    so i finally got clonidine and am trying it out. yesterday I Took 75mcg and it takes the edge off. i felt in a good mood, not nervous, no somatic reactions to bed like i normally have. seems to be good for benign fasciculations too. ill be trying agian tonight. did seem to make some sleep myoclonus worse from a cardiac point of view.

    doesn't seem like the miracle i was expecting.

    i alsotried propanolol, which gave me relief of anxiety and tachycardia but it gave me brain zaps (sleep myoclonus?) while falling asleep and couldnt actually sleep.



    i'm thinking of mixing atenolol and clonidine and see what happens. i feel like this approach will only be solving one of the issues with my sleep, adrenaline, while there is another one which is that i actually am missing something that makes me fall asleep. its like im going downhill , clonidine is the break, but somehow im still missing the reverse gear and the gas pedal to go back up... hopefully cyproheptadine or smtg like that will help
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  18. xptriado

    xptriado Senior Member

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    how long did it make you sleep for? my main issue is staying asleep
     
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  19. xptriado

    xptriado Senior Member

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    i think i am discovering this too. 4am, wide awake and sweating. lets see the next few days. i'm on 75mcg
     
  20. Chriswolf

    Chriswolf Senior Member

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    This was pretty much my experience with propranolol as well, the side effects from taking it, including tinnitus even after taking one or two doses was enough to make me want to avoid taking it if I could help it.
     

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