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Circadian Rhythm Problems

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by Ocean, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=can-a-lack-of-sleep-cause

    Has been my experience as well. Days that I sleep better I start becoming a much brighter and productive person, even regain some sense of humour. I even start doing things and having projects in my mind. I am positive a consistent improvement in sleep that lasted for months would make me a much better, healthier and happier person.
  2. Bluebell

    Bluebell More % Neanderthal than Adreno but less hairy :-D

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    I also have had delayed sleep phase for a long time, since anyone can remember. My body's preferred time has always been to go to sleep around 3 or 4 am, wake up around 10 or 11 (or 12 if I could!)

    The reason I'm responding to your post is that I've never before heard that the 2-hours-per-night delay can really mess a person up, but I tried doing it on my own, a few times, about 10 years ago (after reading advice that it was the best thing to do), and it didn't work at all for me, and it did seem to screw up my rhythms even further.

    ...Not anywhere as badly as it affected you, though. I'm sorry to hear of your trevails.

    As you say, when I can get on normal folks' typical schedule (sleeping from 10 or 11 at night to 6 or 7 in the morning), it only lasts for a day or two and then I'm right back into a strange rhythm, because it extends beyond the 24 hours and I can't easily stick to one spot.

    I've tried light therapy, all the typical bedtime-sleepyness tips -- except for melatonin because I was always cautious about using a hormone on my own (and I mainly lived in places where it wasn't available without a prescription).

    I've just received my 23andme genetic results and the results of many blood tests, and I'm about to self-treat my health in a number of ways, and will be interested to see if my sleep pattern changes as a result of these interventions.

    Good luck to everyone here.
    MNC likes this.
  3. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I dont have the DSPS anymore but instead have now what Im seeing as a worst issue as like least with the insomina of the DSDP, I still have my sleep following a pattern. Now thou Im falling asleep anywhere from 6pm onwards and then waking up at 3am or after depending on what time I suddenly feel asleep (which then could have me having to go back to bed at 10.10am) and so dont have regular hours for anything. Im struggling to plan anything at all during the day as I dont know when I'll be asleep and when I'll be awake. Its also starting to look like I currently may now have a less then 24 hour sleep cycle going on too.

    I didnt think I would find a sleep issue worst then my previous DSPS and non 24 hr sleep/wake cycle (which previously was longer then 24hrs) but this new issue is, due to never knowing when I will be asleep or awake, no even strange pattern I can follow.
    MNC likes this.
  4. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I think the blue-blocking sunglasses do work. I am not feeling very sleepy tonight. I was blaming a bad couple of days, then I realized that I am not wearing my blue-blocking sunglasses.

    I went to get them from the head of my bed and they were not there. I sometimes take them off elsewhere if I have to read fine print, so I looked around for them, but could not find them.

    I remembered that I had bought a second pair, since I have a tendency to lose things. I tried to find where I might have put them without success. Then I remembered that I keep them at my parents' house.

    So I searched some more for the ones I keep at home. This was not conducive to sleepiness. Now I am very aware of how bright white my computer screen is.
    Asklipia likes this.
  5. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    So true. When I remove mine for a minute after having them on for some time I feel all the light in our place is so bright and not just bright but distinctly blueish and harsh, not the warm yellow glow you see with the glasses. I truly believe these work, at least for those who may have a melatonin issue at the heart of their sleep problem. Well maybe I shouldn't generalize to that degree. They work for me and for someone else I recommended them to. It's not been a foolproof solution for me, but still a very big and noticeable improvement.
    Asklipia likes this.
  6. Bluebell

    Bluebell More % Neanderthal than Adreno but less hairy :-D

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    I have seen mentions of those glasses on sites like Lifehacker. A lot of those folks swear by them. I don't think I'd like wearing them myself, but I can see how they might really help some people.

    ---
    You know, I just got a mental image of that guy in the old tv drama (from the 80s, probably) "Northern Exposure", the visiting guy up in Alaska who was sensitive to everything and had to live in a bubble. (I think that actor later played a doctor on the Chicago-based medical tv show that I think George Clooney was a doctor in... my knowledge of modern American tv/film/music culture isn't very extensive!) Even at that age, I recognized a little of myself in his character because I had several allergies and sensitivities. It was probably the first time a health problem like that was portrayed on mainstream US tv (other than in one or two documentaries about real people who had to live in real bubbles) and it was clearly a forecast of how our environment was/is becoming less and less easy to live in for everyone, in different ways.

    ---
    Little Bluestem, I hope you found one of your pairs!
  7. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    We use them since last June and they have made a marked difference. Some on sleep but incredibly, they just removed any residual desire to shop/watch TV/play computer games.
    The computer screens are now on black and white too.

    The next step, after having cut off blue blight, will be a red light trial.
    http://www.mediclights.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Newsletter-07-13.pdf
    especially for this :
    http://www.international-light-asso...d risks of light entering the eye HWRFunk.pdf
    There is already a thread here :
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/led-red-intranasal-light-therapy.24195/
    Lots of good wishes!
    Asklipia
  8. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    I found that it's important not to wear the blue blocking glasses and use the bulbs too early in the evening. If I use them more than an hour before bedtime, I wake too early.
  9. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Very interesting, Perchance Dreamer. What time do you put them on? I had read that you're supposed to put them on at sunset so I've been doing that but I have had trouble with early waking, so I wonder if that's why. I just worried that if I put them on a few hours after dark they may not work for me. It seemed when I put them on late one night I went to sleep a lot later, but maybe it was coincidence.
  10. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    I go to bed at midnight and put on the glasses and use the amber bulb in my lamp at 11:00. I used to do both those things 3 hours before bed, but finally realized it was causing me to wake too early.

    It makes sense that if you give your body the signal it's time to go to bed hours before you actually do that you'll wake earlier than you want to.

    That's the way it works for me, anyway. I think a lot of the timing is trial and error.
    Ocean and Asklipia like this.
  11. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    I tried melotonin and light therapy and neither worked but I suspect my system was so out of wack that melatonin really unable to address sleep issues.
  12. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Proper cortisol cycle is also important in correcting sleep rhthyms but treating it can also be tricky and take time.
  13. Bluebell

    Bluebell More % Neanderthal than Adreno but less hairy :-D

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    "...in most five-year medical degrees the subject of sleep and circadian rhythms will be considered in perhaps one or two lectures." (from article cited below)

    That's not surprising, but it's unfortunate.

    Waking up to the link between a faulty body clock and mental illness:
    Biological clocks are known to schedule sleep and changes in alertness, mood, strength and blood pressure, but recent studies suggest they are also deeply involved in mental health
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2013/jul/22/body-clock-biological-circadian-sleep
  14. redrachel76

    redrachel76 Senior Member

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    I hate to go against the majority but the blue light glasses didn't help me at all. I used them for 1 or 2 weeks constantly and bought them from bluelights at the high price just to be certain that they would be good.

    I used Melatonin for years and it always seemed to give me heavy periods. The last 2 years I started to get ovarian cysts which is probably unconnected but it has put me off continuing. There is 1 paper on melatonin and the reproductive cycle on rats. It's not enough evidence that melatonin effects the reproductive cycle. However since melatonin has been only helped very little, I decided to stop. My gynacologist warned me against taking melatonin too.

    I have read an anecdotal report of over the counter lithium orotate helping someone with thei cirdadium rythm problem and sleep. Has anyone tried it?
    It was just an anon on a blog, not a serious paper or anything.
    Valentijn likes this.
  15. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    It is a bummer when something that has helped several other people does not help you. Our bodies are so contrary. :ill:

    I take lithium orotate and find it helpful.
    redrachel76 likes this.
  16. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    I tried this and so far it hasn't worked for me. For me it seems I need to put them on when it gets dark out or else I still have trouble sleeping. Last night I put them on at 10 instead of 9 like usual and it was much harder to fall asleep when I went to bed. I will try a couple more times and see. It would be great to only wear them for an hour or so before sleep but so far that isn't happening for me. And I worry what I'll do in winter when it gets dark early. I certainly don't want to start wearing them like at 5 pm! I'll update in case anyone's interested if I have any luck with putting them on later in the night.
  17. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    While reviewing my notes on B2, I came across the following:
    I would like to know what the other two vitamins involved in the regulation of circadian rhythms are. I am behind on reading this board and all but one other website that I read. I do not have the energy/time to research it right now. I am hoping someone else with circadian rhythm problems will be curious enough to look into it.
    Asklipia likes this.
  18. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    Good find Little Bluestem :thumbsup::balloons::thumbsup:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12199301
    Three vitamins are involved in regulation of the circadian rhythm.


    Photoreceptors in the eyes of mammals synchronize the innate circadian rhythm to the solar light-dark cycle. They differ from the photoreceptors serving vision in rods and cones of the retina and are located in the ganglion cells of the retina. They consist of melanopsin, a protein homologous to rhodopsin, with retinal as the light-sensitive prosthetic group; and cryptochromes 1 and 2, proteins combined with methenyltetrahydrofolate and flavin adenine dinucleotide, which function as blue light-sensitive photoreceptors.
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  19. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    Too much blue light and you are exhausting your stores of B2.
    Too much Fake Folate and you are in folate deficiency.
    End result = circadian problems and ensuing metabolic problems and HPA axis dysregulation.
    Little Bluestem and Wayne like this.
  20. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I could not get anything but the abstract. It looks like the second vitamin would be methylfolate.

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