Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Chronic Sinus infection and eye irritation. I need advice.

Discussion in 'General Symptoms' started by joe12, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. joe12

    joe12 Senior Member

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    I need some advice. I recently have been having some trouble with a specially persistent sinus infection, which is causing me to get a lot of eye irritation and today has been one of the worst days. I lately have the facial expression of a person who has a flashlight right in front of their eyes, that's how much its beginning to hurt my eyes. Its an odd sinus infection because I am not getting a lot of purulent mucus drainage but it feels very stuffy, its more like a dry sinus infection. In fact, if I had a lot of liquid mucus coming out, I would probably start to heal it, which was kind of happening in the beginning.

    Now its just like this bunch of irritated, dry sinuses extending all over my eyes, below my eyelids, and its producing an inflammation that is likely building on top of my already existent inflammation, which is probably whats causing the NDPH in the first place, so I am having almost twice the inflammation and photophobia that I had before. I am not sure how to deal with this anymore, I tried cleocin, amoxicillin, and cephalexin, and they helped a bit but not anymore. I have also tried some visine drops, genteal gel, genteal drops, and lately some refresh tears which help a bit. I even tried some mineral oil ointment/paste for the eyes, which was not good.

    I remember I started to have these irritation/sinusitis symptoms along with tooth pain about four months ago, and then I was thinking about a different way to treat bacterial infections, so I found that the sugar xilitol killed some pathogenic bacterial by starving them, so I bought a bag of xilitol and stuffed my nose with it. Bad idea, it actually somehow made it worse, maybe something in the processing of it. Two days after I started to get stronger eye irritation, so I had this struggling/irritated facial expression along with the burning. I am having this now, and you cannot function with this. So, I don't recommend xilitol for the nose.

    My only hope right now is in nimodipine, and SODzyme, hopefully these will reduce the inflammation, the irritation, and aid in healing, but if they don't work then I will be our of options other than just these really strong antibiotics, which is not good. My main concern is that this additional irritation, which is making it difficult to read and focus my eyesight, will accelerate visual deterioration, vitreous syneresis, and maybe cause some other visual problems. I really hope someone could provide some good opinions on this, its quite important right now. I am not very confident on my main doctor to help much with this, and I don't trust ENT's very much anymore.
     
    rosie26 likes this.
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Do you know that it's bacterial? Mast cell activation could be a possibility. I get congested sinus, small ulcer-like outbreaks in nose and ears, as mast cell symptoms. Not terribly serious, signs of adrenal stress.
    https://mastcellblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/12/canary/
     
    joe12 likes this.
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member

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    Photophobia is normally a symptom of iritis or uveitis. If you have a red eye and phtophobia I would recommend going to an emergency department and getting ophthalmic advice. As you say, iritis can produce long term damage. The eye side is much more important than the ENT side.
     
  4. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi @joe12,

    Sorry to hear about your eye problems, and I can certainly understand your concerns.

    I recently started doing saline and herbal eyewashes on a daily basis, and I can't help but think they might help your situation, as they've been very helpful for me.. I put 1 teaspoon of Himalayan salt into 16 ounces of water, pour a small amount into an eyeglass, and rinse the eyes (about 30-60 seconds each).

    The saline solution is only about 1/4 as salty as the ocean, so it's very dilute. Other eyewashes that might be considered a bit stronger might also be worth considering. The saline eyewash I use is very soothing, and seems to clear my sinuses. It's also supposed to be helpful for just about any kind of eye infection..

    Best, Wayne
     
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  5. joe12

    joe12 Senior Member

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    I don't think I have acute iritis, but I do have some irritation, specially in the mucosa behind the eyelids. I am unlikely to have uveitis right now, thou I really don't know if I might develop it later on. I was recently evaluated by a good ophthalmologist, precisely because of my long term photophobia but more importantly because I noticed that I had increased amounts of eye floaters after the onset of my current sinusitis. I also had some bright and dark flashes in my field of view a couple of times. I currently would estimate my floaters to be around two hundred or more for each eye. One day, three months ago, I had an episode of very acute eye pain in my right eye accompanied by diminished vision and darker tones. This was one of the worst experiences I had, and I went to a local ophthalmologist for an emergency evaluation. I was prescribed ketorolac, which immediately helped. This episode was likely due firstly to my chronic inflammatory pain, currently known as new daily persistent headache, a chronic ethmoidal infection, and the use of prednisolone eye drops that was likely the acute inducer.

    The most recent ophthalmologist that I saw diagnosed me with accelerated vitreous syneresis, which means my eye gel is liquefying at a much faster than normal pace. As an idea, I am currently twenty four years old, and my degree of syneresis should only start to appear by the age of fifty. This means there is likely something wrong, some imbalance that is causing this. The doctor did not give an explanation for this, but according to what I could research a likely cause is oxidative stress. Apparently reactive oxygen species are able to break the hyaluronic acid bonds that hold the collagen fibers together in the gel, and as these are produced and infiltrate, usually at the back of the retina, they start to degrade the gel, creating a liquid and layers of these collagen fibers that then become the common eye floaters. This leads me to believe that the likely culprit of my chronic nasal, facial, photophobia and ophthalmic pain is due to these free radicals. So now I am trying to find ways to increase neutralization of these free radicals. Apparently a good way to do this includes taking a superoxide dismutase supplement, perhaps catalase, and trying to upregulate the Nrf2 transcription factor, and maybe TNFa inhibition. There might be better ways or additional things to do that I have not yet learned about, so this is currently by biggest interest in terms of treatment.
     
  6. joe12

    joe12 Senior Member

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    Well, I am not one hundred percent sure, but I would say its likely bacterial, but it also has a chronic inflammatory component to it since I should had been able to be healing by now. The reason I think its bacterial is because the inflammation showed up in an x-ray I had a few months back, it was mostly concentrated in the ethmoid area. I also had a few episodes of green mucus discharge, but this is lacking, and this lack might be in part a reason for the lack of healing. It feels like I have dry and dysfunctional sinuses, so it all just kind of sticks there and it doesn't drain. I have discussed this feeling with multiple ENT's before which evaluated the areas with a camera, but they all say it looks pretty normal.

    That's an interesting article, its a shame I cannot really read a lot right now due to my eye irritation. I will try to read it later thou.

    I think I do have sings of adrenal stress and am trying to figure out what can I do to effectively improve them. One sign is simply fatigue and lack of energy. I also don't respond very well to low dose naltrexone therapy, which in part depends on adrenal function.
     
    Chriswolf likes this.
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Have you tried neti pot, or otherwise rinsing your nose? Maybe with some colloidal silver in the water??

    For me, my primary way of dealing with adrenal stress is coffee enemas. It turned out that relieving my liver relieves adrenals. However, I have no idea whether this wold have worked in the early days, when my cortisol was out of whack. It's been during the years of detox that I've had adrenal stress when liver is overloaded. Coffee enema link in my signature.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  8. JamBob

    JamBob Senior Member

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    I have chronic sinusitis after a 5 month period of "acute sinusitis" where I was on different antibiotics. When the sinusitis was really bad, the thick, sticky mucus used to come out of my tear ducts on both eyes - it was a bit grim.

    Things that helped:

    An ENT prescribed a 3 month course of macrolide antibiotics - these work less on the bacterial issue but are used for their anti-inflammatory benefits. I took azithromycin for 3 months but you might need a different one if you are in the states.

    I take N-Acetyl Cysteine every day - it's a mucolytic and thins my mucus. You can get it in any vitamin shop.

    Using a nasal/facial steamer gives some temporary relief.

    If I have a really bad day I take some lemsip which contains a decongestant ( Pseudoephedrine hydrochloride). My sinusitis is in the frontal sinus (behind your brow ridge) and so things you squirt up your nose don't really make it up to this area but systemic decongestants seem to help.

    A thing that made it worse:

    I was prescribed lots of different steroids to spray in my nose but these seemed to irritate the lining of my nose and caused bleeding and blood clots which made the congestion even worse and they didn't reach the frontal sinus area anyway. I stopped using them and I stopped bleeding, which improved the congestion.
     
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  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn The Diabolic Logic

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    @joe12 - A neti pot with salt dissolved in it helps keep my sinuses clear. Sometimes I follow that up with some antibacterial essential oils in a diffuser. My diffuser has a narrow exit at the top, which makes in very easy to lean over it, and inhale deeply through alternating nostrils while holding the other nostril closed.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Hi @joe12
    Bilberry extract has antioxidants that can help with certain eye problems.
    https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/202.html

    For sinus inflammation there are small studies showing that the particular Serrapeptase strain Serratia marcescens E15 can help reduce inflammation. I tried it and it worked well. Boluoke/lumbrokinase also works well but is much more expensive.
     
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  11. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member

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    I was convinced I had a sinus infection for months but it turned out to be rhinitis. ENTconsulatant and CAT scan confirmed. Apparently up to 70% of CFS/ME patients have rhinitis with no clear cause.
     
  12. piccirilli

    piccirilli

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    I have been dealing with sinus issues most of my life, so some of what I say may help. First and foremost, most sinus issues are caused by gut issues. Whatever you do for your sinuses as temporary measures, you'll eventually have to address this. In fact, IMHO the sinuses are part of the GI tract, directly connected, where microbes can potentially travel and disrupt. Said differently, how your sinus acts up depends on what is off balance in the gut microbiome.

    Bromelain loosens up sinus mucosa and and helps breakdown the biofilm. I find taking bromelain along with serrapeptase work well together. This may get your sinus to drain, but won't kill the infection.
    As for the infection, if it's yellow meaning bacterial, green most likely fungal. Some people get results running stuff up their nose, using pulsators, netti, sinus respirators, sprays, etc as a vehicle to introduce anti-bacterials into the sinus cavities. Again, from personal experience, it's limiting because it does not address the core issue stemming from gut. However you may try some of these to get temporary relief, providing you can get the liquid to pass through the swollen ethmoids.

    Another option is an orally administered regime of natural/herbal antibiotics targeting the gut, and the sinus . I had good results taking the following herbals after having a horrible 4 month long fungal/bacterial sinus infection. in order of significance and potency: oregano extract oil, Grapeseed extract, Olive leaf extract, neem oil, berberine, Alli-C, and Lauricidin. I used undiluted oils manually capped in OO size caps for digestion. You can adjust strength as needed. Unfortunately everyone is different so experiment with caution, starting on low doses.


    Some sinus people are getting positive results with Lactobacillus sakei. This strain is found in certain recipes of Kimchi and as a starter powder used in the meat packing industry. I've personally started experimenting with both, but the verdict is still out. See here: http://lactobacto.com/tag/lactobacillus-sakei/

    One last word. A sinus infection, as tiny as it may physically be, will drain the crap out of your body. In fact, extremely low energy levels is a precursor to a pending sinus infection, as if coming down with influenza. No point in looking at other potential problems causing low energy and achiness if you are dealing with a sinus infection.
     
    dannybex likes this.
  13. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    When I first started seeing my ENT, she did a culture and saw that I had a fungal sinus infection (eww!!). She said lots of people have chronic low-level fungal sinus infections.

    She suggested a probiotic with certain strains and also a supplement from Ortho Molecular, Sinatrol. Since starting this routine, I've never been cultured with the fungus again although I occasionally get a bacterial infection.

    She's also a big proponent of the Neti Pot sinus rinsing and told me to add 1 drop of fragrance-free baby shampoo to the salt/baking soda combination.
     
  14. Chriswolf

    Chriswolf Senior Member

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    Well now you have me concerned, I'm sorry you're experiencing those issues Joe, I hope you find something that helps reduce the severity of the symptoms.

    I've also been experiencing persistent sinus problems, eye irritation, temporary blurring of vision, pain around/behind my eyes, as well as well as pain in the top rows of my teeth for quite some time now. It seems we've also both benefited from using Ketorolac.

    I wonder how many other people out there have this strange cluster of symptoms plus or minus a few.

    Did you ever have a sore throat at all while experiencing issues with your sinuses?

    I also saw an ENT and he was not helpful at all.

    Keep us posted about your progress.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  15. joe12

    joe12 Senior Member

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    I was told that azithromycin is taken for three days, I already took it for six days and it might have helped but I still have a lot of irritation in the eyes. Quite expensive for me to take for three months. I am thinking about trying doxycycline for a few days.
     
  16. antares4141

    antares4141 Senior Member

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    Truth or consequences, nm
    Might want to take a closeup picture of it if you can. My eye's burn maybe 2 or 3 times a year. Usually only one or the other I think. I should be more observant and take notes. More of an irritation like if I got a piece of sand in them. It's happened often enough that I don't think that is the case though. Also often have bleeding in my nose but only know about it when I happen to have to blow my nose and see the blood. Eye irritation often comes with a constellation of other symptoms. I should keep better notes on also. Almost looks like some kind of critter is boring through my eyeball. Looking at google images of red eye's I don't think there is anything remarkable about mine. Below link is a picture of a recent episode I had. Like a few days ago.
    https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0C5oqs3qGQ9ayT
     
  17. Dakini

    Dakini

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    Hi Chrisswolf

    I’ve been experiencing something similar. I’ve had at times very painful photophobia to the point where there were times I was unable to open my eyes at all – and rushed to emergency eye hospital a couple of times. I get pain around / in the eyes, face, headaches etc when my eyes are open or in direct light. My optometrist said it was caused by dry eyes. I also have had a very dry mouth where I couldn’t quench my thirst. Additionally, when it was at it’s worst there was a lot of other general pain in my joints and elsewhere. I was also exhausted and needed to sleep a lot.

    It was really bad for about 2 and a half months and then got better for a time and is now fluctuating but on the milder side. I didn’t have any sinus problems but did get laryngitis shortly after the other symptoms appeared.At first my optometrist thought it was connected.... I'm not sure.

    For a while I thought I had Sjorgrens but I was tested and found out that I didn’t.

    My optometrist has advised me that my eyes were not producing enough oils.... I realised that I wasn’t really getting much in the way of omega 3’s in my diet and on the off chance that was contributing to the problem, I started taking them. I sort of thought t they were making a difference although was trying lots of things... so not sure.

    I did also dramatically increase my oral hygiene where I was flossing a million times a day and brushing after every single time I ate or drank something. I was using a xylitol toothpaste and mouthwash. Again, at the time I thought this was helping, although, again, once I was feeling well I slowly lapsed back to my regular routine...

    I know for sure that certain mixed herbal supplements make me worse. But they seem to be just exacerbating an underlying problem.
     

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