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Chronic fatigue syndrome from vagus nerve infection: psychoneuroimmunological hypothesis

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Ecoclimber, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Senior Member

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    Zogor-Ndreaj, Shkodër, Albania
    Yes SD you've read and responded and correctly.

    But how can you possibly have the opinion that your symptoms are the result of a chronic infection in the vagus nerve?

    There has been very little information in terms of medical reports into this and I simply see it as another quite vague theory without any sort of backing.

    I understand its a rather new theory so I'm not totally knocking it back, but it is no where near the forefront of possible theories to explain the cause of CFS.

    I also wanted to ask, rather than creating a new thread, what you think of Walter Terrelo's hypothesis that all CFS cases are caused by zoonotic bacterium. He claims arsenic to be the actual cure for it and a clinic in Denmark has had a 100% cure rate for CFS.

    Reason why everyone hasn't jumped on the bandwagon?

    Terrelo filed for a worldwide patent as soon as he uncovered the cause of CFS that's why.
  2. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

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    Without knowing anything more than what you've just shared on the subject of Terrelo my opinion would be it's a pile of crap.
    What is he trying to patent if arsenic is the cure?

    To me the 100% cure rate is a give away. I'm prepared to embrace a variety of (even conflicting) ideas as to what's going on with ME but this isn't one of them.

    As for how I can hold the opinion that my symptoms are a result of chronic vagus nerve infection I can only say I dropped the ball on that. Somewhere between questioning whether the paper said anything useful regarding 'sickness behaviour' or whether it needs more investigating to find whether chronic infection could also be involved I lost track of the thread with my next comment <sigh> and was merely stating in general regarding some chronic (not necessarily Vagal) viral activation.
  3. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I do not agree with the bacterium cause but in the old days arsenic was used in animals for chronic problems and for improving overall health and performance . I used it myself in horses.
  4. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Thanks greatly for this Mike. I hadnt read on this theory (vagus nerve infection). As I have severe dysautonomia... this theory could make a lot of sense
    ....

    (note to myself .. up to reading page 4 of forum posts)
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
  5. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Senior Member

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    I'm glad you mentioned horses. Terrelo's discovery came after his horses started showing signs of CFS such as malaise and behavioral changes. He treated them with Sodium Thiacetrarsamide and the horses symptoms resolved within 10 days. A few weeks later, he and his wife started portraying the same symptoms and were diagnosed with CFS. For three years docs couldn't help them so they decided to self treat with the same arsenic compound which cured their horses. All their symptoms resolved within 10 days.

    One of his most recent studies in 2011 looks at CFS in falcons and Terrelo again talks about CFS in humans and how this can be resolved.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3132614/

    The link below outlines the three types of CFS causes, which again explains that pathogenic bacteria which is the most common culprit.

    http://www.disabled-world.com/health/fibromyalgia/fibromyalgia-cfs.php

    I'm unsure why you disagree with bacteria as the cause as the case behind this is very strong indeed with major research and mainstream scientists and researchers backing it after the long viral hunt turned up no results.

    I'd also like to share the original patent owned by Terello and his wife for those interested:

    http://www.google.com/patents/EP0804185B1?cl=en

    CFS can be beaten. With persistence and thinking outside the box.
  6. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I can't help wondering how he diagnosed CFIDS in falcons, especially as there still lacks consensus on how to diagnose it in humans.
    taniaaust1, Mij, Snowdrop and 2 others like this.
  7. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Could you cite some, with links?
  8. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I do not say his data are wrong but I doubt the conclusion will apply to cases like mine. There migt be bacteria cases taken for CFS but severe ME cases are more than that.
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  9. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Etiologic Agents and Diseases Found Associated with Clinical Aspergillosis in Falcons
    Walter Tarello

    MeSci likes this.
  10. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Nothing wrong with my appetite between flareups. Weight loss is the opposite of getting fat in long term ME patients
  11. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    He sees sickness behavior. Finds a bacteraemia and calls that CFSID.

    Does a known cause not exclude from CFS diagnose?
    MeSci likes this.
  12. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    That lot are in no way specific for ME/CFS/CFIDS. The symptoms could be due to a wide range of conditions.
  13. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Senior Member

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    CFS is simply a collection of symptoms. The falcons displayed the same/similar symptoms in comparison to the human CFS which we all know too well.
    Jadin is the biggest backer of the pathogenic bacteria theory. She carries on her fathers work who also treated CFS with ABX since decades ago.

    InvestInMe have sponsored their own study into CFS link with bacteria.

    I will not link nor include more examples as I am too tired. Sorry.
    I get the impression from your post that CFS and ME are too different things. What do you mean your case is more than that? What changed for you during the time you contracted CFS, had a vaccine? Stress?

    CFS has very variable symptoms. I've had CFS since age 4 and have had constant bouts of weight loss and normal weight. Never fat.

    I've already posted a link in one of my earlier posts for the study that was done between sickness behaviour and CFS. Terrelo used Fukuda for diagnosing all his subjects in all trials as far as I know.

    A known cause does not exclude CFS from diagnosis as CFS has a cause too. One of which may possibly be microrocci as proposed by Terrelo.

    Very true indeed. But then, CFS in itself is a disease with a considerably variable set of symptoms.
  14. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    No and no. Only exposed to high infection pressure of the pathogen I suspect. No test and no known cure for that one. It is not mainstream medicine and I do not see any avail in discussing it here.

    For the record, I never thought I have CFS but they all want to throw it in the same waist basket.
    You say, finding a cause for the symptoms in a patient does not get that patient out of the waistbasket?

    I have no problems with patients testing for the pathogen he finds and treat that but claiming it aplies to all cases is too short-sighted.
  15. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Senior Member

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    Yeah well, any complaints of long-term fatigue not explained by the standard blood tests issued by doctors will warrant them to award you a fresh label of CFS.

    I said finding a cause does get the patient out of the wastebasket. But I also said the wastebasket is only temporary until the actual cause is found as every patient does have a cause for their symptoms.

    Look, I cannot say for sure what the offending pathogen/condition/disease is. But I can say there is a definite link between ALL CFS patients no matter the cause/trigger of their individual case of CFS.

    I was talking to a doctor who is a friend of my dads today. I asked him if he knows anything about treating CFS. He turned and asked me back...do you play football?? I answered no. He said, you see, CFS is a term for lazy people, people who are depressed.

    His answer and mindset alone depressed me. These are the kinds of people we are going to for help.

    By the way. Its my birthday today. I am 23 and have had CFS since a flu that never went away when I was 4.

    Good day.
  16. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I didn't,
    I had no doubt it was a new zoonosis and contacted those experts.
    May I wish you a happy birthday?
  17. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Happy birthday. Hope it's as enjoyable as it can be.
  18. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Happy Birthday John, I hope your day goes as well as it possibly can for you.

    When Walter Tarello published his theories some CFS patients from Europe and from the USA went to see him for treatment in Italy but I didn't ever hear of anyone having been cured by him. I knew people at that time we weren't. Then he moved to the middle east and I lost contact with what he was doing.

    Not saying that there wasn't anything in his theory or treatment but just that it was well covered on the CFS and ME groups at that time and people did follow this up.
  19. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Senior Member

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    Zogor-Ndreaj, Shkodër, Albania
    Hah. Yes of course you may :).

    Thanks. Was another day scouring the web for CFS related news.

    Thank you.

    Yes you are right about that. There are threads still archived on PR mentioning Terrelo. I just thought I'd mention him considering he and his breakthrough finding seem to have not been followed through enough. Also his 2011 report on CFS in falcons mentions human CFS too which made it relevant in my eyes.

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