"Chronic fatigue" cartoon in New Yorker.

Okay, usually I try to stay away from threads that have turned into ugly arguments, so usually I would just stop reading a thread that had degenerated the way this one has, but I introduced this topic, darn it, so I don't feel I should have to just go away.

Mr Kite, I think your belligerence and bullying detracts from a free and open discussion of the topic. I'm interested to hear the opinions of people who don't think the cartoon is insulting to people with CFS and/or IBS, or who don't think it even pertains to us, even if I don't agree them. I started the thread because (1) I wanted to call the attention of members of the forum to the cartoon and (2) I wanted to know what they thought about it. The way you pound people who don't agree with you may make some people I'd like to hear from reluctant to post.

That's my opinion and I'm glad to confirm that I'm entitled to it.

I usually think that it's best not to encourage this kind of argument by engaging in it. It doesn't create the kind of mutually supportive community that I'd like these forums to be. But keeping quiet doesn't seem to have worked in this case, and I do want to hear what people think of the cartoon and how best to respond to it. It's put me in a quandary about how best to proceed.

Glad you saw that house episode. Wish I had a video clip of that.

"Mutually supportive community?" Lol - are you joking? When I am subject to patronizing b.s. from people who apparently think they're my father and want to tell me how to talk? Give me a break. This 'community' is about the most emotionally unhealthy co-dependent forum I've ever seen in my life.

Anyone who passed third grade reading can see that the cartoon says "Chronic Fatigue" in the title. The weird insistence that it's not about CFS is just a perverse attempt to stir up some sh!t. Or else the person is a complete imbecile. There's no other explanation for it.

You gave yourself away when on the one hand you claim you want a "free and open discussion," and on the other you criticize my contributions to the thread. So you really don't want a 'free and open discussion', you want a discussion where people are discussing things the way you want them to. Unfortunately for you, I discuss things the way I want to, and if you don't like it, then don't read it. No one is forcing you or anyone else to read anybody's posts. I think it's time all of you control freaks stop trying to CONTROL me and what I say. I will say what I want the way I want, and if you don't like it, don't read it.

Your characterizations of my matter-of-fact statements as "belligerence" and "bullying" is not appreciated, either. Who do you think you are, anyway? It's like some of you think you're everybody's parents. You have no right to speak to me that way. I asked the person who strangely thinks the cartoon is not about CFS what s/he's doing in the thread. That's a perfectly valid question, and it's none of your business anyway since I wasn't even addressing any of you. Stop projecting your emotions all over my matter of fact statements. I can ask anyone whatever I want. Again, who do you think you are to say I can't ask someone a question? It's unbelievable. Who do you think you are? Your "lecturing" of me like you think you're my freaking mother and father are way over the line. That's totally unacceptable, and like I told the other guy, if you do it again I'm simply going to report you.

Good cartoon. Be funny if the guy on the right had editor written on his shirt badge...

Okay, I just reported ixchelkali for attacking my writing style and trying to make the thread about me. The thread is not about me. That's off topic.

Anyone else want to get reported? Or can we stick to discussing the cartoon, and not my writing style?

In that case he would need to be lacking a brain, too. That would be really funny!

This cartoon idea would be a great way for us all to express or frustration with the whole CFS politics situation. Get creative and create our own propaganda to respond to the propaganda directed at us from the CDC/MRC/Doctors/welcome trust/negative research papers. How funny would that be?

Bob can be the illustrator. :O)

It is a good cartoon. I think it makes the point best with the guy being a psychiatrist (but I guess I'm not allowed to say that or else it's "belligerent" and "combative." Quite a bind some of you people have put me in - can't even state an alternative opinion without you claiming it's 'belligerent').

Although technically the cartoon could be considered libel if the guy could demonstrate that it referred specifically to him and he wanted to make an issue of it. Alleging that someone has a psychological disorder is clear defamation.

that'd be great!

I second Bob for illustrator.

And what are you doing to try to improve it?

This is the kind of comment I meant when I spoke of belligerence.

I was not trying to control you. I was hoping that reason and fairness would persuade you to control yourself.

I will say what I want the way I want, and if you don't like it, don't read it.

I see: you can say what you want, but I can't. "If you don't like it, don't read it."

When you post on a forum thread, you are addressing everyone who reads it. If you want to address someone personally, send a PM. And as I pointed out, I started this thread, so you were addressing me.

And this is what I meant by bullying. I've done it again. Please, report me.

But you win. I've taken your bait, given you a chance to continue your vitriol.

To those who were interested in the original topic of this thread, I apologize. I hereby abandon it. Regretfully, because I thought it was a worthwhile discussion, but it no longer seems possible to discuss it. I give up.

MOD: Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions, but NOT to their own forum rules... The above are just two examples of the insults flying on this thread. Please keep the discussion about the topic and not about the forum members. Remember people are often posting through brain fog here.

... please keep the playground a nice place, no more throwing sand at each other ! And remember who the enemy is here, it is not other forum members, as confused as they might be.

It's strange that when Mij kept combatively repeating that the cartoon wasn't about CFS you didn't call him belligerent. Why not?

Except there is reference to CFS. Stating there isn't when anyone can see that there is is combative.

Another smug and combative comeback. "Probably not too many" with IBS are complaining about the cartoon, so those with CFS shouldn't be, either.

And yet again the perverse insistence that the cartoon doesn't refer to what it clearly does refer to. So at post number three, we are definitely getting into belligerent, bullying territory. Antagonistic, actually.

The problem - in my view - is that like many people, you confuse form for substance. If you could detach your emotions and read the content of what people write more dispassionately, without overlaying all your own emotions over it (what's called projection) you might begin to be able to respond to what people are actually SAYING - i.e., the actual CONTENT - and not the FORM in which they're saying it. And that would improve the forum immeasurably.

Mij did not call anyone stupid, or tell them not to come talk on this thread, or say they did not understand English.

How do you know the person is a native English speaker? I don't know that. I didn't call anyone stupid, and I didn't tell anyone not to "talk in the thread." I think you'd better stop the baseless allegations now. I never told anyone not to participate in the thread, so it would be better for you to stop lying about that.

MOD: Well, I gave the thread a final chance, but the posts continue to be mostly about forum members and not the topic of the thread. So for now this thread is closed, please do not continue the arguments privately or start another thread, if so I will close that as well. Sometimes we just need to agree to disagree...

Meanwhile, I hope everyone involved can take a break from this and cool off, do something different, maybe find a good movie online, after all, it's Friday night!