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Choline and DMG + BHMT vs Methionine Synthase Pathway

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by kposs, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. kposs

    kposs

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    I understand from Yasko that choline and TMG promote the BHMT pathway and when your cellular levels of Folate, B12 and cofactors are sufficient that DMG slows the BHMT pathway and encourages the methionine synthase pathway which increases glutathione.

    My goal is to increase my glutathione levels, so after a couple months of Folate, MB12, AB12 & Cofactors, I added DMG. Great results from the DMG - more energy and feeling better overall. I had previously tried TMG and did not have any noticeable effects. However, for whatever reason (pcos, general imbalances, who knows), I cannot keep my appetite under control unless I take choline. Without choline, I never feel satiated or full no matter what I have eaten (my diet is very clean Paleo).

    I currently take about 3 grams of choline per day (1 g before each meal) and I take 1000 mg of DMG (500 mg twice a day) which gives me good results with my energy.

    I wonder if the 3g of choline vs the 1g of DMG is overdriving the BHMT pathway? Can't find any information what what dosage of DMG is needed to encourage the methionine synthase pathway over the BHMT pathway. Anyone have a clue about this?
    triffid113 likes this.
  2. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Rich posted a lengthy answer about DMG in this thread:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...nd-the-simplified-methylation-protocol.15385/
  3. kposs

    kposs

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    Thanks Lotus97. I think I read every thread on the internet about DMG ;)

    Just an update with my solution. I dropped the Choline and Inositol and switched to high dose chromium polynicotinate to help with the appetite control/carb & sugar cravings (3 to 5 mcg per pound of body weight). It's working great so far.

    I also plan to then lower my dose of DMG back to 500 since I no longer need to try and 'offset' the choline.

    This should finally encourage the methionine synthase pathway and increase my glutathione. I recently read that one of the characteristics of PCOS is decreased glutathione, so that is definitely what I need.
  4. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I'm actually planning on adding choline mainly to help my cognitive function and hopefully help with anxiety (although it has the opposite effect on some people). I had bought DMG partially because it was supposed to be good for the immune system. I haven't been using it because I wasn't sure what to expect from it, but now I might need it to offset the choline. I haven't really been able to find much about DMG other than what I posted.
  5. kposs

    kposs

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    When I started using DMG, I got a nice energy boost - the most noticeable change I had so far. I could tell a major difference the first day that I took it. And it was sustained. When I started the Active B12 and MethylFolate, I had alot of energy the first day, but it gradually decreased even while upping the amount of the B12 and MethylFolate.

    I also got the weird smell in urine when starting DMG which Rich described as probably due to raising glutathione levels and detoxing. That lasted several weeks and I still get it periodically.
    Marcus2013 and Lotus97 like this.
  6. Marcus2013

    Marcus2013

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    Hi kposs,

    So actually you are only taking the DMG + Chromium piccolinate ?

    Is it working for you ?
  7. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    kposs
    When you said you're taking "cofactors" does that mean all the supplements in Freddd's protocol? A lot of those supplements improve mitochondrial function and the Krebs Cycle which will help a lot with Glutathione production. Also, if you're taking Alpha Lipoic Acid you should be taking extra biotin because ALA depletes your body of biotin. Biotin is important for a lot of things including Krebs and energy production and also glucose levels.
  8. kposs

    kposs

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    I actually take many vitamins and minerals each after specific research and geared toward my specific health issues (mostly inflammation - I do not have diagnosed CFS). I take a very small amount of ALA with my carnitine (100 mg). I do not take more because of low thyroid (high dose ALA can significantly slow down the T4 to T3 conversion), but I do take extra biotin as well.
  9. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    This is interesting. I never heard of a tie between choline levels and satiety. 3 g./day! I wonder if you have this genetic defect? MTHFR 1598. There is anways a new one, sigh.

    Genetic variation of folate-mediated one-carbon transfer pathway predicts susceptibility to choline deficiency in humans

    1. Martin Kohlmeier,
    2. Kerry-Ann da Costa,
    3. Leslie M. Fischer, and
    4. Steven H. Zeisel*
    Author Affiliations
    1. Department of Nutrition, School of Public Health and School of Medicine, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC 27599
    1. Edited by Bruce N. Ames, University of California, Berkeley, CA (received for review May 25, 2005)
    Abstract

    Choline is a required nutrient, and some humans deplete quickly when fed a low-choline diet, whereas others do not. Endogenous choline synthesis can spare some of the dietary requirement and requires one-carbon groups derived from folate metabolism. We examined whether major genetic variants of folate metabolism modify susceptibility of humans to choline deficiency. Fifty-four adult men and women were fed diets containing adequate choline and folate, followed by a diet containing almost no choline, with or without added folate, until they were clinically judged to be choline-deficient, or for up to 42 days. Criteria for clinical choline deficiency were a more than five times increase in serum creatine kinase activity or a >28% increase of liver fat after consuming the low-choline diet that resolved when choline was returned to the diet. Choline deficiency was observed in more than half of the participants, usually within less than a month. Individuals who were carriers of the very common 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate dehydrogenase-1958A gene allele were more likely than noncarriers to develop signs of choline deficiency (odds ratio, 7.0; 95% confidence interval, 2.0-25; P < 0.01) on the low-choline diet unless they were also treated with a folic acid supplement. The effects of the C677T and A1298C polymorphisms of the 5,10-methylene tetrahydrofolate reductase gene and the A80C polymorphism of the reduced folate carrier 1 gene were not statistically significant. The most remarkable finding was the strong association in premenopausal women of the 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate dehydrogenase-1958A gene allele polymorphism with 15 times increased susceptibility to developing organ dysfunction on a low-choline diet.
    aaron_c likes this.
  10. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    Apparently rye bread increases satiety and glucose tolerance as well:
    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf2019825
    Postprandial Glycemia, Insulinemia, and Satiety Responses in Healthy Subjects after Whole Grain Rye Bread Made from Different Rye Varieties.
  11. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    500mg after reading this article: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005...earch&key="Braverman" "weight loss" "chromium" (I could not find a 1g dose and since the one I have is 500mg, I tend to take that to make the bottle last longer. I meant to take the 1000mg but I never did).
  12. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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  13. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    No. I haven't actually measured. I am just saying it has not caused a low blood sugar attack. If it lowered my blood sugar short of an attack I wouldn't know. I have an excellent A1C but I have high postprandial blood sugar. (like 140, if I drink Pop, which I don't - it goes to 250)

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