1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
California 2014: IACFS/ME Day Four: Translating Science into Clinical Care: 23 March 2014
It is Day Four and the final conference session from San Francisco. In this review we hear from Searcher about the neurosciences session, and PET and EEG analysis, then a study on cognitive functioning, followed by a debate on the revised 2014 IACFS/ME Primer, and then we wrap-up the...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Chocolate - likely to be causing 'wired but tired'?

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by Sasha, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    6,999
    Likes:
    4,563
    UK
    I used to drink cocoa powder (organic, nothing else in it) several times a day, plus sometimes Lindt 90% chocolate bars (no soy, corn, etc.) and stopped a couple of months ago as part of an exclusion diet.

    About a month ago I re-introduced them two days running as a test and had spectacular insomnia both nights.

    So I stopped them again and did another test yesterday and was up til 4am. I only had one teaspoon of cocoa powder and 50g of chocolate. I've had some again today as a further test.

    Wondering if this is coincidence but I'm feeling very wired/tired - can't concentrate, am skipping from thing to thing, can't make myself lie down even though I'm tired...

    Is this likely to be chocolate? I didn't realise it could do this, and in such low doses.
  2. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,195
    Likes:
    2,399
    Scotland
    You're eating pretty strong stuff, Sasha. :eek: 50g of 90% would have me up all night. And I'm not overly sensitive to it.
    I'm still boycotting Lindt. I made a promise on a petition I would, until they start using ethical employment to source their beans.
  3. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    6,999
    Likes:
    4,563
    UK
    Is that strong? I thought that was nothing! :aghhh:

    I'd been thinking of this in allergy terms but maybe I should be thinking of it in pseudo-caffeine terms (chocolate has some caffeine-like substance in it).
  4. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes:
    735
    Florida
    Sadly, yes. Coffee does this to me also. MB12 and p5p started doing this to me
    last year.

    As for combatting the wired but tired, ever since I started using a combo
    of melatonin, 5htp and Klonopin I can sleep. If I wake up, taking more
    of these puts me right back to sleep.

    I've started experimenting with just
    taking more Klonopin, .125, and not the others because I'm feeling mentally
    sluggish in the morning if I take too much mel or 5. The jury is still out.
    Sasha likes this.
  5. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    6,999
    Likes:
    4,563
    UK
    xchocoholic - I should have realised that your name contained the answer to my question!

    :(:(:(
    xchocoholic likes this.
  6. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,195
    Likes:
    2,399
    Scotland
    It will be the caffeine-like stuff in it, Sasha.
    Klonopin is a benzodiazepine; prescription only; addiction problems for many (including me).
    Sasha likes this.
  7. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,195
    Likes:
    2,399
    Scotland
    I can manage ~ 25g of 85% cocoa solids without it keeping me awake.

    :p I did find a form of chocolate which aids sleep.... it's luscious cherries, soaked in brandly, surrounded by brandy, all enclosed in good dark chocolate. I do not count these as "proper" alcohol, but 4 of them, and there is a tiny feeling of something sleep inducing.... they are also tremendous fun to eat - very, very messy.

    These are my really naughty treat for myself. I do not get them often.:angel:
    Sasha likes this.
  8. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    6,999
    Likes:
    4,563
    UK

    They sound great! What's the brand?
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  9. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes:
    735
    Florida
    Twas a sad day indeed when I realized I had to give this
    up.

    I've learned that I can eat a little every couple of days and
    avoid symptoms but that's a slippery slope that I've yet to
    conquer. Once an addict, always an addict. : )
    Sasha likes this.
  10. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,195
    Likes:
    2,399
    Scotland
    Sadly, they're not any sort of brand at all. They come from a tiny old-fashioned sweetie shop in a village about 40 miles away.

    The man there toasts his own coconut for making his home-made macaroons, he makes proper meringues - all caramel coloured and chewey inside - cooked in a gas oven... makes his own "rocky road" type things and has all sorts of specialist "hand-made" chocolates in a cabinet. I zoom in on the section of the cabinet with the chocolate brandy cherries in immediately!
    He doesn't make the chocolates though, but I don't know where he gets them from. There was a bad dearth of them for a while, because the complicated old-fashioned machine that helped make them broke down.

    If I go to Forfar again soon, I will ask, Sasha.:thumbsup:
    They have to be available elsewhere too...
    Little Bluestem and Sasha like this.
  11. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    6,999
    Likes:
    4,563
    UK

    Sounds like heaven!
  12. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes:
    735
    Florida
    I was on klonopin for about 16 years and weaned myself off of it slowly about
    6 years ago. I only tried it again about 2 years ago and found it helpful.
    I stick to the .125mg range to keep my tolerance down. I have myoclonus
    so I have to take something anyway. Diet, gluten free esp, helped at first but not
    enough.

    At 58 and chronically disabled, I don't see the point of trying to avoid getting
    addicted to a medication that I seem to need. That includes Chocolate too. bwaa haha
    beaker likes this.
  13. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes:
    735
    Florida
    Hmmm, alcohol laced chocolate. I had a friend who made bourbon balls that
    were to die for. May have to try that again.
    peggy-sue likes this.
  14. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,195
    Likes:
    2,399
    Scotland
    xchocoholic said;
    "At 58 and chronically disabled, I don't see the point of trying to avoid getting
    addicted to a medication that I seem to need. That includes Chocolate too. bwaa haha"

    I agree completely - by the time you're our age, it's quality over quantity, every time.:thumbsup:

    However, my addiction to benzos is severe - I develop tolerance rapidly, and I have to fight the urge to take more than I should, within 30 minutes of having taken the first one.
    They do that; "Mmmm, this is really good, lets have some more, more will be even more good...and I need to feel even more good..." thing to me.
    I was seriously addicted to Valium in the mass-over-prescribing scandal that went on in the '70s.
    I don't even know how long I was on them. I have no memories of that period of my life at all, apart from remembering that all I needed to do to get more pills was to phone the surgery.
    I could not cope with dealing with that again, and withdrawal from benzos is utterly vile.



    I don't normally like my chocolate "diluted" in chocolates, but the cherry and brandy thing isn't diluting it, it just complements.
    Can you can get your chocolate "fix" from bourbon balls, without too much of a reaction? :)
  15. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

    Messages:
    1,893
    Likes:
    1,236
    Midwest, USA
    I wonder what the chance is they are available this side of the pond or what they cost if they are. :thumbdown:
  16. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    2,479
    Likes:
    1,103
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Coffee, tea, and chocolate all have caffeine in them. Even decaf varieties.

    Genetically, there are fast caffeine metabolizers and slow caffeine metabolizers. I found out I'm a fast metabolizer, but I can't have any caffeine whatsover, or I'll be overly wired for hours. I think this has more to do with the adrenals, as I didn't use to be so sensitive. Your genes aren't going to change.
    justy and Sasha like this.
  17. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,195
    Likes:
    2,399
    Scotland
    Many folk who have undiagnosed ADHD - mostly older folk, who have just had to learn to live with it because it wasn't recognised, (myself included) self-medicate with caffeine and nicotine.
    It does not wire them, but calms them.
    As you say, Caledonia, genes aren't going to change.

    :) I can see me making trip to Forfar, buying the shop out and sending these all over the world.:p
    I don't know how well they would survive the trip. I would have to wrap each chocolate seperately, then put them in an egg-box or something like that. They make a right mess if they break. And I'm not even sure it would be legal. What you can and can't put in the post can be complicated.
  18. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes:
    735
    Florida
    I'm addicted to food, esp anything in a wrapper. ; )

    fwiw, not that it's a good idea, but I can handle caffeine better on Klonipin.
    I didn't realize it until I got back on it.

    I'm curious if alcohol would suppress the same neurotransmitters. I drink Kombucha and
    it's alcoholic and has caffeine so maybe. Hmmmm.
  19. Gandalf

    Gandalf

    Messages:
    48
    Likes:
    29
    Germany
    I also have problems with chocolate.
    You should check if you have problems with histamine-releasing foods in general.
    I have problems sleeping and thinking especially when I consume:
    Chocolate
    Nuts
    Tea
    Berries
    Pineapple
    Sasha likes this.
  20. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,755
    Likes:
    850
    US
    A small amount of chocolate usually keeps me awake for 5-6 hours. So I normally have it 6+ hours before bed.

    I'm still not sure if it gives me a "tired but wired" feeling during the day. It does sometimes, but maybe only if I am overexerting because of the temporary chocolate energy boost.
    Sasha likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page