Cheney on Growth Hormone

[panckage]

If anyone wants to try IGF-1, it is available as a natural supplement in the form of deer antler velvet (the velvet coating on deer antler is naturally high in IGF-1). This is taken sublingually.

This is a bunch of BS! There are no meaningful studies to support deer antler velvet has any effect on UGF-1
http://examine.com/supplements/velvet-antler/
You are usually so good at research too @Hip haha

I've had good results with stimulants @amaru7. Cheap non-prescription options for these:
1) Kratom
2) L-Theanine + caffeine powder

If you want to make your own pills, you can buy the powders super cheap at powder city or any of the vendors mentioned on https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/ They discuss lots other interesting drugs that can help us like Noopept. Ask @Hip about his experiences with this

 

[Hip]

This is a bunch of BS! There are no meaningful studies to support deer antler velvet has any effect on UGF-1
http://examine.com/supplements/velvet-antler/

Well if you look at the NOW Foods IGF-1+ Liposomal Spray, the product label states quite clearly that it contains IGF-1, and NOW Foods are a reputable supplement company. Similarly for the Nutronics Labs IGF-1 Plus product, a company that has been around for 15 years.

I guess NOW Foods and Nutronics could be lying, and in spite of the product label, there may be no IGF-1 in the bottle; but why would a reputable company like NOW Foods do something like that, and risk damaging its reputation?

 

[panckage]

Well if you look at the NOW Foods IGF-1+ Liposomal Spray, the product label states quite clearly that it contains IGF-1

I'm not sure we are in disagreement. The product does not claim the IGF-1 comes from the deer antler. They are listed as separate ingredients. I'll let you look at the research and make any conclusions about deer antlers yourself

 

[Ema]

It's painful for the deer to have the velvet removed. Many times they are given an anesthetic but it seems like a lot to put an animal through when there are no good studies proving it even has an effect on humans in the doses found in most supplements.

I say give this one a pass in the name of preventing animal cruelty.

 

[Hip]

The product does not claim the IGF-1 comes from the deer antler.

You may be right.

But then why, if you are selling an IGF-1 product that does not come from deer antler velvet, would you bother to put any deer antler velvet into the bottle at all? Why not use just pure IGF-1, without the velvet?

If they are indeed adding IGF-1 to antler velvet, it might done for legal reasons: IGF-1 is a prescription product, but possibly if the manufacturer is selling a product like deer antler velvet in which IGF-1 is putatively naturally found, that may make it legal. Milk after all contains traces of IGF-1.

I could not find any studies than confirm or deny that IGF-1 is naturally present in deer antler velvet, but if you know of any, please post a link.

A lot of the deer antler velvet products from obscure manufacturers are less that honest, though, containing far less IGF-1 than they state on the bottle. This is according to the www.antlerwatchdoggroup.com (their website no longer exists, but I have linked to the Wayback Machine archive).



In general, I think a more reliable source of IGF-1 would be those numerous companies that sell peptides and hormones to body-builders.

 

[panckage]

I could not find any studies than confirm or deny that IGF-1 is naturally present in deer antler velvet, but if you know of any, please post a link.

I did in the examine.com link.
"No significant influence of velvet antler on IGF-1"
I do realize that isn't exactly the same thing but close enough

 

[Hip]

I did in the examine.com link.
"No significant influence of velvet antler on IGF-1"
I do realize that isn't exactly the same thing but close enough

Yes I saw that study (here is the paper), but in the abstract it does not say whether the velvet antler was administered orally or sublingually (the velvet antler product I have is used sublingually). If it was orally, then note that this study found oral IGF-1 does not increase serum IGF-1 levels.



I would like try a pure IGF-1 injectable product, from a peptide supplier such as peptidesciences.com.

When I tried injectable HGH 1 IU daily, it made me feel quite a bit better in terms of my anhedonia and depression symptoms; and relaxed me somewhat, and gave me some energy. Much of HGH's action in the body is of course mediated by the IGF-1 release it induces.

However, when I take a strong velvet antler product from Nutronics Labs, taking more than one or two drops sublingually makes me very aggressive and irritable for around 24 hours, which is horrible. It's like 'roid rage. So I have to be very careful with the velvet antler dosage.

I am not sure why the injectable HGH and the velvet antler gave me such different results, if both feature IGF-1 as a main pathway. Possibly it is because velvet antler contains other factors such as IGF-2.

That's why I would like to try some pure IGF-1 injectables.

 

[roller]

in my final blood work the only thing bothering the experts was, whether i (female) shave my face or not.
it was a major issue, as i had a relatively high IGF-1 (350, range 95-250) and other (low) androsteniol-values (female hirtuism suspected)

but definitely have never shaved my face, nor has any other female in our extended parental/maternal family. i even had considerably less hair growth than my friends. a genetic cause for high igf1 i would rule out.
seems to be caused by helminths, though.

the day (+/- 6 month), the blood was taken, i felt extraordinarily bad.

how did it go with the HGH tests?

a high HGH may protect from tissue damage, caused by pathogens.
so a low HGH may add additional stress/pain on tissue?

and ppl with LOW HGH may have
- allergies
- inflammation markers up

perhaps the IGF-1 could be even a marker for exercise tolerance?

 

[O'donell]

I am an inch away from getting this and trying it myself. I've gone through Cheney's article where he talks about it and the risks. He says lack of HGH can cause other hormones to become ineffective even though they are at normal levels because HGH is necessary for the functioning of the receptor sites where other hormones take effect. That explains all the normal hormone levels of thyroid and adrenal even though all the symptoms of deficiency are there.

The risks are any virus you have may multiply and become activated. Even stopping the HGH may not stop the activation and it may stay like that for awhile.

The immune system overactivation may become even more activated.

If you have cancer, well, you can imagine what will happen.

RNase L is a protein and HGH can increase production of this protein. This could impair liver function more than it may be already doing.

So Cheney says when they keep HGH at a low lever, like .2 mg injected once a week, 99.9% of people don't have problems.

He also talks about using it with growth factor, but I want to worry about HGH by itself.

I remember reading somewhere that the majority of cfs patients have the th2 more active than the th1 part of the immune system and that's why they don't tend to have cancer.

So I figure it's a good bet I don't have cancer and if I feel bad I'll discontinue it. It's supposed to take months to really do its work.

 

[Tunguska]

I'm thankful someone bumped this. Has anyone found or tried any IGF-1 intranasal spray (analogous to intranasal insulin)? I know it exists somewhere.

There's even studies with intranasal HGH but I'm not sold on that one.

 

[heapsreal]

I'm thankful someone bumped this. Has anyone found or tried any IGF-1 intranasal spray (analogous to intranasal insulin)? I know it exists somewhere.

There's even studies with intranasal HGH but I'm not sold on that one.

Igf is different to insulin. Ive only heard of intranasal insulin. Igf is usually injected.

 

[heapsreal]

I am an inch away from getting this and trying it myself. I've gone through Cheney's article where he talks about it and the risks. He says lack of HGH can cause other hormones to become ineffective even though they are at normal levels because HGH is necessary for the functioning of the receptor sites where other hormones take effect. That explains all the normal hormone levels of thyroid and adrenal even though all the symptoms of deficiency are there.

The risks are any virus you have may multiply and become activated. Even stopping the HGH may not stop the activation and it may stay like that for awhile.

The immune system overactivation may become even more activated.

If you have cancer, well, you can imagine what will happen.

RNase L is a protein and HGH can increase production of this protein. This could impair liver function more than it may be already doing.

So Cheney says when they keep HGH at a low lever, like .2 mg injected once a week, 99.9% of people don't have problems.

He also talks about using it with growth factor, but I want to worry about HGH by itself.

I remember reading somewhere that the majority of cfs patients have the th2 more active than the th1 part of the immune system and that's why they don't tend to have cancer.

So I figure it's a good bet I don't have cancer and if I feel bad I'll discontinue it. It's supposed to take months to really do its work.

I havent used gh but would like to try it, mostly to try and fix sleep and a bonus to fix general aches and pains.

I was in contact with a cfs guy a few yrs back who had bad sleep issues . He went on gh prescribed by his dr and said his sleep improved, dont think other symptoms changed much. He stopped after 12 months due to cost but it seemed the sleep improvements stayed???

 

[Tunguska]

Igf is different to insulin. Ive only heard of intranasal insulin. Igf is usually injected.

Yeah but I spotted some studies with intranasal IGF-1 though they might have been rats and I'd prefer to avoid the systemic effects personally, not to mention I never warmed up to injections. One more thing to wait on I guess. Intranasal insulin was in a very familiar ballpark, I tried very recently and I'd call it useful but didn't quite reach the hype. I wonder exactly that, if the snorted IGF-1 would have very different and more dramatic effects.

About the HGH, its role in sleep was also the main and only reason I thought to try it someday, but I wasn't seeking out its other non-IGF effects, at least not before seeing this thread, now I'd say I'm not sure. I did stumble on this awhile back: http://www.virginiahopkinshealthwat...creases-growth-hormone-while-improving-sleep/ it is a very high dose but still counts as a potential surrogate.

 

[heapsreal]

Yeah but I spotted some studies with intranasal IGF-1 though they might have been rats and I'd prefer to avoid the systemic effects personally, not to mention I never warmed up to injections. One more thing to wait on I guess. Intranasal insulin was in a very familiar ballpark, I tried very recently and I'd call it useful but didn't quite reach the hype. I wonder exactly that, if the snorted IGF-1 would have very different and more dramatic effects.

About the HGH, its role in sleep was also the main and only reason I thought to try it someday, but I wasn't seeking out its other non-IGF effects, at least not before seeing this thread, now I'd say I'm not sure. I did stumble on this awhile back: http://www.virginiahopkinshealthwat...creases-growth-hormone-while-improving-sleep/ it is a very high dose but still counts as a potential surrogate.

I know bodybuilders use igf for muscle mass but also injury repair but they dont use it any longer than 6 weeks or it cause insulin resistance. Gh injection at normal doses dont cause insulin resistance.

I guess u can take drugs via many ways, intranasally is quite quick almost like iv.

Theres atomizers that can be placed on the end of a syringe so drugs can be given intranasally. Paramedics use them to give kids narcotics for severe pain or benzos to stop seizures. Drug's work quick with it.

 

[Tunguska]

I know bodybuilders use igf for muscle mass but also injury repair but they dont use it any longer than 6 weeks or it cause insulin resistance. Gh injection at normal doses dont cause insulin resistance.

Theres atomizers that can be placed on the end of a syringe so drugs can be given intranasally. Paramedics use them to give kids narcotics for severe pain or benzos to stop seizures. Drug's work quick with it.

That first part is a great point. In theory I could strongly benefit from its effects on collagen and the like. But I eat so much protein already including casein and other supporting factors that I kinda doubt it's a limiting factor there, guess I could be underestimating it. Interest remains mostly in getting a high concentration in brain to clearly see/exploit the effect. Though you'd probably get resistance or feedback inhibition there too, I cycle everything regardless.

Had no idea what the word atomizer meant before, thanks.

 

[heapsreal]

That first part is a great point. In theory I could strongly benefit from its effects on collagen and the like. But I eat so much protein already including casein and other supporting factors that I kinda doubt it's a limiting factor there, guess I could be underestimating it. Interest remains mostly in getting a high concentration in brain to clearly see/exploit the effect. Though you'd probably get resistance or feedback inhibition there too, I cycle everything regardless.

Had no idea what the word atomizer meant before, thanks.

Atomizer change the fluid into a mist like a sinus spray does, sorry about that.

Theres peptides etc that increase igf and gh but heard they can make u sleepy, but i guess just dose at night.

Protein intake can be high but if hormones arent optimal than the body cant use it effectively for repairing etc

I hear ya on the collagen repair etc. I think with long term cfs the inflammation created can wreck many joints etc. Wish there was a sure fire way to get rid of inflammation.

 

[Tunguska]

Protein intake can be high but if hormones arent optimal than the body cant use it effectively for repairing etc

I hear ya on the collagen repair etc. I think with long term cfs the inflammation created can wreck many joints etc. Wish there was a sure fire way to get rid of inflammation.

Yeah true, but among the supporting factors I already take some progesterone and other hormones and I think it covers a lot of ground. But whether the doses I take stimulate HGH or IGF-1 that much I don't know, I never take 300mg of that, I'd be glued to the bed.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Bumping this thread again...

I recently had a consult with an anti-aging center that a friend recommended. The doctor noted from my bloodwork, among other things, a less than optimal IGF. She prescribed Sermorelin, which is a peptide that stimulates the pituitary to release IGF. She prescribed it as a sublingual 'troche' from a compounding pharmacy.

I know there are people who say sublingual doesn't work, but I've just started taking it last night and I guess i'll see if it has any effects, positive or negative. If it doesn't help, I may ask her to Rx an injectable form.

She also prescribed a B vitamin complex injectable, which I started giving myself this morning. I'll report back in a few weeks if I see any results (side note - first time I gave myself an injection. it was actually very easy).

Has anyone else out there taken sermorelin in any form?

 

[Ema]

Bumping this thread again...

I recently had a consult with an anti-aging center that a friend recommended. The doctor noted from my bloodwork, among other things, a less than optimal IGF. She prescribed Sermorelin, which is a peptide that stimulates the pituitary to release IGF. She prescribed it as a sublingual 'troche' from a compounding pharmacy.

I know there are people who say sublingual doesn't work, but I've just started taking it last night and I guess i'll see if it has any effects, positive or negative. If it doesn't help, I may ask her to Rx an injectable form.

She also prescribed a B vitamin complex injectable, which I started giving myself this morning. I'll report back in a few weeks if I see any results (side note - first time I gave myself an injection. it was actually very easy).

Has anyone else out there taken sermorelin in any form?

I did. I injected it. I didn’t notice anything one way or another so I stopped it. Good luck!

 

[Upgrayedd]

I did. I injected it. I didn’t notice anything one way or another so I stopped it. Good luck!

Thank you for the feedback, Ema!