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Chelation before methylation protocol?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by bluezone, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. bluezone

    bluezone

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    I recently stumbled upon this article:

    Neurodevelopmental Toxins Deplete Glutathione and Inhibit Folate and Vitamin B12-Dependent Methionine Synthase Activity: A Link between Oxidative Stress and Autism. (http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/22/1_MeetingAbstracts/894.1)


    I was wondering whether one would first have to do a serious heavy metal cleanse before embarking on the methylation protocol. Methylcobalamin injections, as well as other b-vitamins, folate etc will not work effectively without first treating heavy metals. It sounds reasonable that unless you get rid of the mercury and other heavy metals, it doesnt matter how much b12 you pump into your system it just will not reach your cells. I am not suggesting for one second that b vitamins should not be taken in conjunction with a chelation program as that would be unwise too.

    This brings me to my question on how one would start chelating safely. As Fred has mentioned many times on this forum Glutathione will eventually induce a b12 deficient state (I too have found this). I have also found this with the following supplements: glycine, glutamine, NAC, chlorella and recently dhea.

    Does anyone know whether DMSA, EDTA or Lipostabil (phospholipid exchange therapy) will have the same inducing effect?

    I look forward to hearing your views on this.

    Many thanks.
  2. alice1

    alice1 Senior Member

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    Hi bluezone,
    I'm starting to chelate myself today.My only recommendation is for you to look at Cutlers Protocol.He's listed all the supplements you'll need while chelating.
    I have a friend who is helping me as she's done chelation on her daughter and knows his regime very well.
    I'll post later with any info she offers.But in the meantime google Cutlers and see what he says.
  3. alice1

    alice1 Senior Member

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    for dmsa I'm starting at my the dose for my body weight which is 25mg. I'm to take it every 4 hours so,7am 11am 3pm 7pm 11pm 3am 7am and so on.i'll do this for 3 days on a week off.the dmsa has a 4 hour life so not taking it at pulse dosing only redistributes.
    The supplements that's been suggested are 8 grams buffered vit c.(2 grams spread 4x throughout the day)magnesium 750 to 800 mgs spread 4x throughout the day.
    zinc 50-75ms
    vitamin e 200 to 1000 units a day.
    I'll keep you posted on what happens.
  4. caledonia

    caledonia

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    If that's the case, then I accidentally did it the right way. The methylation protocol was unknown when I did the metal chelation. (I'm now on the methylation protocol.)

    Anyway, I chelated with a supplement called Chelex which has a little bit of everything people use to chelate (DMSA, EDTA, cilantro, chlorella, NAC etc.) Made by Xymogen.

    I took I think 1/16 of a pill every three days for 6 months. That would be 6mg of DMSA twice a week, much much lower than what Alice is doing.

    This was a successful approach as shown by Doctor's Data testing before and after.

    I would suggest learning self muscle testing to determine the right amount for you. There are videos on YouTube showing how. I just learned this technique recently and it is so useful. Much better and quicker than trial and error. You can head off a lot of the "accidents" of having bad reactions to substances you don't tolerate or take too much of.
  5. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    This is an interesting topic and one that will probably get some conflicting answers. Some say not to supplement with methyl b12 if you suspect mercury, others(Cutler) say it's fine. I've been on the Cutler protocol for a year or so now, and seeing slow improvement. Some of the improvements, such as vision, would come and go before I started high doses of mb12. On reading about Freddds protocol I've upped the dose significantly and the vision improvement(sharpness, separation and colour) are happening much more now, and is almost stable. What I did notice though on upping the b12 was kidney pain and detox symptoms, much of which felt similar to being on a round of chelation with the DMSA. I find the lack of concrete information with all this stuff quite frustrating.

    The most significant thing I've noticed with the chelation is that it's allowed me to take a whole lot of supplements that were causing reactions before I started chelating.


    ALICE - Be wary of starting on 25mg of DMSA. I've been doing this for a year or so and tried that dose on my last round. It took 2 weeks to get my energy levels back to where they were. I'd suggest starting on something like 5mg for the first round.
  6. alice1

    alice1 Senior Member

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    Thanks Adster.
    My friend who is helping me just told me to start at 6mg ..great minds!
  7. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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  8. alice1

    alice1 Senior Member

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    Adster I just did a candida cleanse and I'll stay on 2 caps of olive leaf.Do you think that would be sufficient?
    Thankyou for the link.
  9. Joopiter76

    Joopiter76 Senior Member

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    if someone has a sulfite problem (CBS up or SUOX downregulation) then DMSA, DMPS can make you worse because they can block SUOX. Thats why Dr. Yasko uses EDTA.
  10. alice1

    alice1 Senior Member

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    What is EDTA?
    I just looked at a sulpher food site and there isn't a food not listed except for lettuce.lol.My pal who is helping me is sending a list of the most common foods that people may have a problem with.
    This is my 3rd day of chelating on the DMSA and so far I haven't had any bad reactions.Early days I know.
    I'm doing several rounds of DMSA then on to ALA.
    From what I've read about Cutlers protocol it's low and slow which is the trick for me.
    Thanks for all your imput.
  11. alice1

    alice1 Senior Member

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    I finished my first round of chelation and today is the first day I feel crappy.I was thinking at some point this may happen.Adster I know you started high then dropped your dose but did you ever feel blah on the lower doses or has anyone else?
    Any suggestions or thoughts would be great.
  12. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Yeah that's my normal patttern, feeling worse for a few days after the round. The effect on the round varies and is changing as I go. The first round was pretty amazing, I hadn't felt that relaxed in many years, and my eyesight improved dramatically for part of the first day. That only happened on the first round then occasionally in later rounds and now after starting mb12 the vision improvements have stayed pretty consistent. My guess is that mercury or lead is impairing methylation. How did you feel on the round? How crappy do you feel? If it's too high a dose it will probably wipe you out adrenally for a few weeks.
  13. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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    HI there,

    Although I can't speak for CFS, my daughter has autistic traits, and I am a member of several discussion groups for autism. According to these groups you should ensure that the gut is in good shape before undertaking chelation, as the chelation can stir up gut problems such as yeast and bacterial overgrowth. Treatments are usually dietary gf/cf, and supplements such as grapefruitseed extract for bacteria, yeast treatments and digestive enzymes. Here is a link to some of the products used for gut healing, although the site is in the UK, you can probably buy them in other countries if you google the product. Of course this might not apply to CFS, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

    http://www.mandimart.co.uk/all-products-36-c.asp

    HTH

    Glynis
  14. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Glynis what is gf/cf please?
  15. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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    Sorry Mary,

    Gluten free/casein free. Some parents go beyond this and take out all wheat products and also soya products, so no soya milk as a replacements for regular milk. There are other diets used in autism - Specific Carbohydrate Diet and Low Oxolate Diet, with good results for their children.

    BW

    Glynis
  16. alice1

    alice1 Senior Member

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    Adster I felt fine on the round.Nothing profoundly good or bad and I take a supplement that has adrenal support in it.Who knows I may need more.
    Yesterday I was just very tired and angry..lol...everything pissed me off.Thanks for letting me know that's ok.Today i'm just a little more tired but the anger has gone.I hope you feel improvements with each round.This is a long journey.
    Glynis thankyou for responding as well. I am indeed gluten intolerant and haven't had any for at least 8 months.I also stay away from any fermented foods i.e soy,cheese etc.
    I take olive leaf for canadia and bacteria.I think I've covered every supplement that's been suggested but any more recommendations are so welcomed.
    Thankyou both again.
  17. Medman99

    Medman99

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    I've been using zeolite( acs zeolite to be exact). Seems pretty benign to me. I did a round of DMSA a few years back, and it nearly put me on disability. I think that stuff moves mercury into your brain! Not to mention, PWCs seem to have very little tolerance for high sulfur compounds and foods, imho. Also did IP6(inositol hexaphosphate) for a good year after a hair analysis revealed I was loaded with cadmium. IP6 reduced my levels to near nothing. Good stuff.
  18. sela

    sela Senior Member

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    i looked up ip6 and it seems to be an incredible substance. chlelates among many other good things. this is the first time i have heard it mentioned for cfs people.
  19. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    I'm trying to work out that if you establish that you could have a problem with heavy metals whether addressing that before following the methylation protocol would be advisable? However, I'm wondering if the methylation block means the body has low gluthatione would the body then find it very hard to tolerate any detoxing of heavy metals? And so addressing the methylation block first would help with chelation, even if one would not be able to completely lift the methylation due to the heavy metals?

    Many thanks in advance
  20. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I did chelation before methylation (methylation was not invented yet). If I had it to do over now with both available, I would do methylation first. It would make things easier/quicker.

    I have not heard of metals interfering with lifting the methylation block. Although I have heard of mercury possibly going to the brain, which Rich Vank has addressed.

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