CFS/overtraining

[TiredSam]

It's hard to stop the sport isn't it? But thanks and I wish you luck at the clinic.

Thanks. Yes, it is hard to stop sport, it was a big part of my life for 25 years. I met my wife on a 5.000 km bike trip, and cycled 1.500 km with my boys when I was 45. Plus cardio and weights 2-3 times a week, it was part of my identity, I loved being fit and feeling fit. Mentally letting go wasn't easy. But to be honest 2 years later I haven't put on weight (I eat healthily) and there is still a lot of pleasure to be had out of life and a lot to be grateful for. I don't even go for short walks now, but it's not as bad as it sounds, you can get used to anything.

 

[BurnA]

Thanks. Yes, it is hard to stop sport, it was a big part of my life for 25 years. I met my wife on a 5.000 km bike trip, and cycled 1.500 km with my boys when I was 45. Plus cardio and weights 2-3 times a week, it was part of my identity, I loved being fit and feeling fit. Mentally letting go wasn't easy. But to be honest 2 years later I haven't put on weight (I eat healthily) and there is still a lot of pleasure to be had out of life and a lot to be grateful for. I don't even go for short walks now, but it's not as bad as it sounds, you can get used to anything.

Sounds familiar.
I am still in my first year though so I still miss it. If I ever get better all I want to do is cycle again !

 

[rosie26]

@Little running man The sore throats are concerning and your body is telling you you need to reign things in - stop running until you can settle all these symptoms down. My mild ME and then severe onset ME (years later) began with a very unusual sore throat - really hot. You remind me of my mild years, the off/on and the slightly, always there symptoms and bouts of worsening.

If you do have ME and continue to run, you will set yourself on a faster course to severe ME, you really need to do everything you can to avoid severe - severe ME is an absolute nightmare to experience. Please take care and I am so pleased you are aware of this illness, ME, so that you can now learn as much as you can to try to avoid progressing. I only learned that I had ME when I fell into severe, I did not recognize the symptoms of ME in my mild years.

 

[Little running man]

@Little running man The sore throats are concerning and your body is telling you you need to reign things in - stop running until you can settle all these symptoms down. My mild ME and then severe onset ME (years later) began with a very unusual sore throat - really hot. You remind me of my mild years, the off/on and the slightly, always there symptoms and bouts of worsening.

If you do have ME and continue to run, you will set yourself on a faster course to severe ME, you really need to do everything you can to avoid severe - severe ME is an absolute nightmare to experience. Please take care and I am so pleased you are aware of this illness, ME, so that you can now learn as much as you can to try to avoid progressing. I only learned that I had ME when I fell into severe, I did not recognize the symptoms of ME in my mild years.

Thankyou Rosie,I stumbled in it as I have a friend who was diagnosed with M.E. (Though I'm not 100% sure it is) and he's also a runner like me. So although I thought/think (?) I had OTS it seemed sensible to research M.E as well.

But the fatigue can be labelled as many things .....it's the sore throat that alerted me that something was wrong and has been the trigger (?) for the fatigue. It's hard to describe the soar throat. It feels swollen (but isn't) it's strange to swollow (but doesn't hurt) and it feels warm.

Trouble is that most of my symptoms can be logged against may things. So I'm confused tbh. So thought I'd ask for help from people who know!

Thankyou for your reply, Gary

 

[Little running man]

@Little running man You're playing with fire by running. You risk getting much worse by exercising especially aerobic exercise if you have me cfs. Even if you don't have me cfs let's say you have an active infection which it sounds like you have then aerobic exercise is still a risk for your health.

Do you think you have postexertional malaise (PEM)? I.e. How do you feel the day after you run or two days after? Feeling worse after pushing yourself, often delayed a day or 2 or more, seems to be the most common symptom among those with ME CFS.

Edit: oops sorry just reread the part where you describe experiencing PEM. In that case I strongly urge you to stop exercising or the chance of getting worse is very real. perhaps others can chime in to convince this runner to exercise caution so he doesn't go downhill like so many of us have from overdoing.

If I sound abrupt and dire my apologies. just trying to save you from the consequences of this mistake many of us have made including myself.

Thankyou! I've taken on board what you've said. I've obviously worried myself as well as I've stopped for 5 weeks which for me is pretty extreme. Thankyou for caring Gary

 

[Little running man]

It sounds familiar to me.
Just rest and take things very easy for the next few months. If symptoms improve then maybe it is overtraining. But this is not something you want to prove or disprove. Time will tell exactly what the problem is. There is no test for overtraining or for cfs so doctors won't be able to tell you definitely. Wait, rest and see.

It's looking that I'll have to stop and see what happens!! Best to listen to those who know about these things! Thanks for the advice. Gary

 

[Aurator]

It's looking that I'll have to stop and see what happens!! Best to listen to those who know about these things! Thanks for the advice. Gary

I can sympathize with your situation. I was a committed amateur athlete before coming down with my present illness three years ago. The most troubling symptoms have been persistent sore throat, flu-like symptoms, PEM, IBS and general exhaustion.

In spite of not feeling at all well I tried to still train during the first year of my illness, but each time I pushed a little I slipped back to a persistently lower level of functioning than before I pushed.

For the last two years I've only done light exercise and in much reduced quantities. Although I'd love to be able to do the racing my brother still does (we once shared many experiences that we no longer can), there are other less active things in life (such as my handicraft that I once earned a living from) I want to be able to do as well, and if I went out and attempted to train again I know I'd almost certainly end up so debilitated that I couldn't do any activities at all. As things are at the moment I can generally do a few hours of my craft a week and it is a lot more rewarding than being able to do nothing.

If you're an athlete with this illness, sometimes the desire to go out and train has to be slowly pummelled out of you. During periods of payback for your excessive activity you may repeatedly find yourself having to spend long periods in bed or on the sofa, and not be physically or mentally up to doing anything at all. It's then that you realise that being able to do some kind of activity at least is better than being able to do nothing, and if this means you can never train or race again then so be it.

In my youth I had a lengthy bout of what was diagnosed as PVF, but eventually recovered from it and was well enough to train and race again after about ten years. Then I fell ill again. This time round, the illness has hit me much harder, and I've vowed not to entertain the idea of training and racing again in the future, however good I may feel, until such time as the illness I'm presently suffering from is properly understood and a dependable cure is available for it. Given my age, that might be never, but in the meantime a life of restricted activity is better than a life with no activity in it at all.

Echoing what others have said, I advise you to be sparing with your energy. You're going to need reserves of it anyway just to deal with the indifference you're likely to encounter at the hands of the NHS, together with their total failure to grasp the impact this illness is having on your life.

 

[Old Bones]

Basically I'm interested if others have the sore throat/fatigue issues with CFS or If I'm barking up the wrong tree.

In the early years of CFS, sore throat was one of the most consistent indications I was doing too much. I, too, was very sporty -- an endurance cross-country skier and swimmer. I pushed myself very hard, thinking I could exercise myself well. Almost 30 years later, I regret having done so. The advice you've been given to rest is excellent.

 

[alex3619]

After exercise I'm tired but each day I run it seems my performance declines.

This is typical for ME. Its not just about feeling crappy, its about a crash in energy production. Look up the Workwell Foundation. Athletes who try to exercise through this problem wind up less and less and less fit.

 

[Little running man]

I can sympathize with your situation. I was a committed amateur athlete before coming down with my present illness three years ago. The most troubling symptoms have been persistent sore throat, flu-like symptoms, PEM, IBS and general exhaustion.

In spite of not feeling at all well I tried to still train during the first year of my illness, but each time I pushed a little I slipped back to a persistently lower level of functioning than before I pushed.

For the last two years I've only done light exercise and in much reduced quantities. Although I'd love to be able to do the racing my brother still does (we once shared many experiences that we no longer can), there are other less active things in life (such as my handicraft that I once earned a living from) I want to be able to do as well, and if I went out and attempted to train again I know I'd almost certainly end up so debilitated that I couldn't do any activities at all. As things are at the moment I can generally do a few hours of my craft a week and it is a lot more rewarding than being able to do nothing.

If you're an athlete with this illness, sometimes the desire to go out and train has to be slowly pummelled out of you. During periods of payback for your excessive activity you may repeatedly find yourself having to spend long periods in bed or on the sofa, and not be physically or mentally up to doing anything at all. It's then that you realise that being able to do some kind of activity at least is better than being able to do nothing, and if this means you can never train or race again then so be it.

In my youth I had a lengthy bout of what was diagnosed as PVF, but eventually recovered from it and was well enough to train and race again after about ten years. Then I fell ill again. This time round, the illness has hit me much harder, and I've vowed not to entertain the idea of training and racing again in the future, however good I may feel, until such time as the illness I'm presently suffering from is properly understood and a dependable cure is available for it. Given my age, that might be never, but in the meantime a life of restricted activity is better than a life with no activity in it at all.

Echoing what others have said, I advise you to be sparing with your energy. You're going to need reserves of it anyway just to deal with the indifference you're likely to encounter at the hands of the NHS, together with their total failure to grasp the impact this illness is having on your life.

I can sympathise with how you must have felt having to stop running.

Up until now I've just be concentrating on how's it's going to affect me, but you guys have been through hell already. Coming to terms with each of your own private hell's must have taken a lot of courage and perseverance. Thankyou for spending some of your valuable hours when you're able to do stuff on helping me! Thankyou to everyone who's commented on this thread

 

[Little running man]

This is typical for ME. Its not just about feeling crappy, its about a crash in energy production. Look up the Workwell Foundation. Athletes who try to exercise through this problem wind up less and less and less fit.

Each time I've rested and returned to running it's been harder/impossible to reach my normal pace/speed so that links in

 

[Little running man]

This is typical for ME. Its not just about feeling crappy, its about a crash in energy production. Look up the Workwell Foundation. Athletes who try to exercise through this problem wind up less and less and less fit.

I'll give it a look Alex ...thanks

 

[Little running man]

In the early years of CFS, sore throat was one of the most consistent indications I was doing too much. I, too, was very sporty -- an endurance cross-country skier and swimmer. I pushed myself very hard, thinking I could exercise myself well. Almost 30 years later, I regret having done so. The advice you've been given to rest is excellent.

Hi old bones ...... Do you get the sore throat still or is it just when you overdo it.

 

[Old Bones]

Hi old bones ...... Do you get the sore throat still or is it just when you overdo it.

A sore throat is definitely not as strong a predictor of having done too much as it was in the early years of my illness. Now, I experience what could best be described as a hint that a sore throat is coming -- but it rarely develops. There are many things that have changed over the years. Like you, I had abnormal white blood cell counts (for the first couple of years) -- now normal. I had a low-grade fever every day for 20 years (never higher than 101 F) -- now sub-normal.

Two researchers at Columbia University (Ian Lipkin and Mady Hornig) have determined that immune signatures in shorter duration patients differ from those in patients who have been ill longer. Perhaps this explains some of the differences. Regardless, this is not a disease to take lightly, and you'd be wise to ensure this isn't what you are dealing with before attempting to continue your active life. Alex is correct -- athletes who try to exercise through the fatigue wind up less and less fit. I'm a perfect example, although for many years my "overdoing it" has merely involved the activities of day-to-day life. I've gone from being able to do mountaineering skiing for an entire day followed by swimming a mile in the pool the same evening, to having difficulty climbing one flight of stairs some days.

 

[PandaDarling]

ME/OTS
I'm a keen runner 60-70m a week is normal.

On 17 March 2015 I got a sore throat 3 days before a race and felt fatigued ( I put it down to training hard) 3 days later a little tired but ok I raced 20 miles (a regular distance for me) and felt good and had a good race followed by sore throat and fatigue on and off in 3-5 day cycles ...then ran a sub 3 hour marathon (felt harder than it should but a decent run) followed by fatigue/sore throat on/off for a couple of months.... I saw the dr, had loads of bloods done ....WBC was low and dropped each test then in October it returned to normal (virus was the diagnosis) I felt fine a week before and a week after the last test and had returned running then hit a wall again sore throat returned (constant now) and the fatigue also. I decided to take a month out of training (still feel tired/lathargic) then I ran a slow 2 mile and woke on the Friday morning with my throat feeling awful and it returned to the normal sore/swollen feeling today (Saturday)

My symptoms are

• sore throat
•tiredness fatigue
• sensitive eyes to sunlight
• hearing has changed
• I feel the cold more
• decreased sex drive
• frequent urination
• mood swings
•loss of concentration
• low pulse 41-47 bpm

My dr has referred me to a fatigue clinic but I'm hoping he'll explore OTS/adrenal fatigue....but reading this it sounds like my symptoms plus The run/crash cycle seems similar.

Can you help or advice what I can do please?

Thanks Gary

Hi Gary,

I was also an avid distance / ultra runner until I got hit with cfs/ME.

I was comfortably running 40-50 miles a week and could run a marathon comfortably. A week before a marathon I felt a bit ill. By the end of the week I couldn't get out of bed! Since then I have managed to push myself to do one marathon as I'd already gained entry (New York) but it was hell. I forced myself to do one long run every two weeks 6 weeks prior to the race (I hadn't been running since I got ill so had been out for about a year but I think my overall running conditioning was still there somewhat). I then had to say goodbye to it all. It's so frustrating having been so active and having a live for running and getting this illness. Now I'm just happy if I make it out for a gentle walk round the block! Just wanted to let you know your not alone really - and I had a similar experience to you.

Panda X

 

[PandaDarling]

BurnA

.....sounds exactly like me! I put it down to marathon training. Nobody seemed to understand how I felt which is frustrating. When you are really active it sucks when you know something is wrong but can't get a answer! It's been a frustrating 9 months tbh.

How did they diagnose you?

They suggested I was over training too. However I had been having periods of sever pain and fatigue over the previous years. I'd also reduced my training as it was coming to winter before the marathon and was only running three times a week so a low amount for me and I felt really well! Untill that dreaded week.

I pushed through with my full time job thinking the Christmas break would leave me feeling refreshed. But it didn't. By mid February this year I had about 10 weeks off (where I slept up to 20 hours a week) and then did a phased return to work. But by the time I was back up to full time I was taking days off during the week sick. I literally slept and worked. Would get home from work. Sleep. Get up. Eat. Sleep. Get up and go to work. And repeat. Including sleeping at work!

I ended up having to leave my job at the end of August.

I now don't work because I am not well enough. So I am trying to focus on my physical and mental wellbeing. Doing very gentle walks and yoga a couple of times a week. I also have a lot of days where I still can't get out of bed. Im waiting for my referral to the CFS ME clinic to go through at the moment so I'm in limbo at the moment. I get pretty bad pain as well (fybromyalgia) so I take pain killers. Anyway. You are not alone

 

[Little running man]

Hi Gary,

I was also an avid distance / ultra runner until I got hit with cfs/ME.

I was comfortably running 40-50 miles a week and could run a marathon comfortably. A week before a marathon I felt a bit ill. By the end of the week I couldn't get out of bed! Since then I have managed to push myself to do one marathon as I'd already gained entry (New York) but it was hell. I forced myself to do one long run every two weeks 6 weeks prior to the race (I hadn't been running since I got ill so had been out for about a year but I think my overall running conditioning was still there somewhat). I then had to say goodbye to it all. It's so frustrating having been so active and having a live for running and getting this illness. Now I'm just happy if I make it out for a gentle walk round the block! Just wanted to let you know your not alone really - and I had a similar experience to you.

Panda X

Hi panda (that my nickname for my cycle buddy) that sounds very similar mine was a slower decline but I did keep pushing untill I couldn't any more!

It sucks doesn't it.....I like you could run a marathon any day of the week with the milage I was doing (ok not a pb without specific training, but it's not a bad fitness level is it) I like you love ultras as well.

It sounds really vane/unimportant but I hate the fact I'm slowly putting on weight.

Sorry this has happened to you. I'm just trying to get a definate opinion if I have CFS ......I'm hoping its OTS as at least I can recover from it but it's hard to know without running again. Yet the (sensible)
advice I'm getting is not to run.

 

[Little running man]

Hi Gary,

I was also an avid distance / ultra runner until I got hit with cfs/ME.

I was comfortably running 40-50 miles a week and could run a marathon comfortably. A week before a marathon I felt a bit ill. By the end of the week I couldn't get out of bed! Since then I have managed to push myself to do one marathon as I'd already gained entry (New York) but it was hell. I forced myself to do one long run every two weeks 6 weeks prior to the race (I hadn't been running since I got ill so had been out for about a year but I think my overall running conditioning was still there somewhat). I then had to say goodbye to it all. It's so frustrating having been so active and having a live for running and getting this illness. Now I'm just happy if I make it out for a gentle walk round the block! Just wanted to let you know your not alone really - and I had a similar experience to you.

Panda X

Hi panda (that my nickname for my cycle buddy) that sounds very similar mine was a slower decline but I did keep pushing untill I couldn't any more!

It sucks doesn't it.....I like you could run a marathon any day of the week with the milage I was doing (ok not a pb without specific training, but it's not a bad fitness level is it) I like you love ultras as well.

It sounds really vane/unimportant but I hate the fact I'm slowly putting on weight.

Sorry this has happened to you. I'm just trying to get a definate opinion if I have CFS ......I'm hoping its OTS as at least I can recover from it but it's hard to know without running again. Yet the (sensible) advice I'm getting is not to run.

 

[PandaDarling]

Hi panda (that my nickname for my cycle buddy) that sounds very similar mine was a slower decline but I did keep pushing untill I couldn't any more!

It sucks doesn't it.....I like you could run a marathon any day of the week with the milage I was doing (ok not a pb without specific training, but it's not a bad fitness level is it) I like you love ultras as well.

It sounds really vane/unimportant but I hate the fact I'm slowly putting on weight.

Sorry this has happened to you. I'm just trying to get a definate opinion if I have CFS ......I'm hoping its OTS as at least I can recover from it but it's hard to know without running again. Yet the (sensible) advice I'm getting is not to run.

Yeah I know what you mean. I would do comfortable 20 mile runs on a Sunday. I wasn't super fast unless I trained for speed for a specific race. But I miss that ability to go out and just run and be in nature.

I have also put on about a stone (I'm only 5ft 3"!) and this has gotten to me too. I feel sluggish and unfit. The running also uses to help my mental health so much. It was how I dealt with things. I would run when I felt sad / angry / confused etc and would work it all out on the trails.

Panda X

 

[PandaDarling]

Hi panda (that my nickname for my cycle buddy) that sounds very similar mine was a slower decline but I did keep pushing untill I couldn't any more!

It sucks doesn't it.....I like you could run a marathon any day of the week with the milage I was doing (ok not a pb without specific training, but it's not a bad fitness level is it) I like you love ultras as well.

It sounds really vane/unimportant but I hate the fact I'm slowly putting on weight.

Sorry this has happened to you. I'm just trying to get a definate opinion if I have CFS ......I'm hoping its OTS as at least I can recover from it but it's hard to know without running again. Yet the (sensible) advice I'm getting is not to run.

ps
It's so hard not to run. But try to take gentle walks instead. We will all get a bit better someday. I know one day I'll be able to run again. And I hope you can too