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CFS: Inherited Virus Can Cause Cognitive Dysfunction and Fatigue

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Firestormm, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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    I failed to locate the actual study; if someone is able to help me out can they post a link please. Thanks :)
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  2. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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  3. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Would the usual PCR test for HHV-6 pick up the RNA? Or only DNA?
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  4. Bob

    Bob

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  5. Dan_USAAZ

    Dan_USAAZ

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    Hi Sasha,
    The HHV-6 foundation states the following:

    "Please note that it is important that the request be made explicitly for a whole blood test as the default specimen is plasma, and a PCR DNA test on plasma is not useful for identifying CIHHV-6. "

    There are more testing details at this link:

    http://hhv-6foundation.org/clinicians/cihhv-6-testing

    Dan
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  6. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    does this mean there could be a good chance that families where all the siblings have ME, and there is HHV-6 infection, that parent(s) will get ME as they age????!!
  7. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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    A very small sub-group then. Presumably the inherent virus had been triggered by something that led to the neurological symptoms and a diagnosis of ME.

    Be nice to know if the trigger was thought to have been the same thing for each person: though it might be hard to reach such a conclusion.

    I wonder if this is how the wastebasket will be whittled down. Little chips here and little chips there. Nothing dramatic that involves big numbers.

    I don't believe they are attributing activation of the inherited virus to aging WillowJ although I don't have the full paper.
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  8. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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  9. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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  10. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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    Willow, the following might provide you with some more insight into this inheritance factor. Below in an overview; the full article is more thorough if complex - but readable I think:

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  11. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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    Also (from the article on the same site I linked to in my post above to Willow):

  12. Forbin

    Forbin Forbin

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    I wonder, if you're one of the 5% who don't have HHV-6 by age 3, if there is any unique consequence to initialy acquiring this virus much later in life, perhaps at a time when one’s immune system has been weakened by some other factor.
  13. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    That is what happens with a lot of viruses - see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7793262

    Quite a few viruses cause a mono like illness, not just EBV (HHV4). If inherited HHV-6 is causal (and the evidence is only suggestive) then what about other herpes viruses, and indeed other viruses that have a latent mode like enteroviruses?

    In EBV (I think) and mumps adult infections are much more serious. Children have different immune responses to adults. Its not so much the virus, its our immune systems.
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  14. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    I came across an article recently which pointed out that during certain phases of the immune response (e.g. during the beginning stages of an infection) it seems to be beneficial to have less active natural killer cells.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130726103355.htm

    This reminded me that CFS patients have lower natural killer cell activity. Perhaps it is an adaptation to the presence of a virus which never fully takes hold and/or the immune system is stuck in the beginning stages of the response?
  15. Bob

    Bob

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    Hi Firestormm,
    You've probably worked it out now, from the second paper that you posted, but I think you may have missed this from the first paper:

    "The investigators assumed that the integrated virus had become reactivated in these patients; however, to their surprise, they found that these IHS patients were infected by a second unrelated strain of HHV-6."

    So it seems that they are saying that infection with a second exogenous HHV-6 virus leads to, or triggers, the CFS symptoms in the patients with the inherited virus.
  16. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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    Thanks Bob helps to clarify.

    Here's what I don't get. I looked around for this HHV-6 and it seems there were a lot of things that it could be responsible for including, now, within this small subset of IHS patients: the symptoms previously attributed to ME.

    How would someone know if a subsequent HHV-6 infection had occurred in the first place? As a patient I mean what would possibly be an recognisable HHV-6-style infection? I mean these aren't invisible are they - or are they?

    Only I found this which talks about HHV-6 A and HHV-6 B. And am now kerfuddled. HHV-6A is the one responsible for the childhood roseola and HHV-6B is symptom-free but could be the one that triggers the ME-like-severe neurological symtpoms in IHS patients.

    Unless the article is wrong of course or the initial post above simply doesn't equate A and B or something.

    Could be me. Long morning :sleep:
  17. Gijs

    Gijs

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    This HHV6 problem from chromosome is not the only problem. Remember all other infections and reactivations found in CFS patients. Think about this study: February 19, 2013: De Meirleir, et al., Plasmacytoid Dendritic Cells in the Duodenum of Individuals Diagnosed with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Are Uniquely Immunoreactive to Antibodies to Human Endogenous Retroviral Proteins It all points out to immune dysfunction. That is the key player. It is a litle scary. It looks like HIV problems.
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  18. Legendrew

    Legendrew Content team

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    From reading this it seems that this inherited viral DNA could be a strong precipitating factor in contracting ME/CFS but i find it questionable as to it being a universal cause of all the symptoms. It seems more likely to me that the cause for many people lies in a dysregulated immune response after a viral infection - possibly autoimmunity - which in turn could lead to viral reactivation compounding the illness.
    However in those where the onset was slow and things such as stress acted as a lone trigger this could be a clue as to the development of the illness and could also represent a sub-group who may respond well to anti-viral therapy but not B-cell depletion.
    Food for thought if nothing else.
    Andrew (19)
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  19. Bob

    Bob

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    They say that only 2 percent of their CFS cohort had the inherited virus (CIHHV-6):

    "In a cohort of CFS patients with serious neurological symptoms, the researchers found that the prevalence of CIHHV-6 was over 2 percent, or more than twice the level found in the general public."

    As far as I can see, the details in this thread don't indicate how many people with CIHHV-6 experience CFS-like symptoms, except for the following (my emphasis):

    "While most CIHHV-6 individuals appear healthy, they may be less able to defend themselves against other strains of HHV-6 that they might encounter. Medveczky reports that some of these individuals suffer from a CFS-like illness."

    and:

    "Some CIHHV-6 patients are suffering from neurological symptoms, while others remain asymptomatic."

    and:

    "The prevalence of CIHHV-6 in this cohort of adult patients from the USA suffering from a wide range of neurological symptoms including long-term fatigue were found significantly greater than the reported 0.8% in the general population."
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  20. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    its great to finally see another study in this area as its HHV-6 was always one I'd been interested in in ME/CFS and thought previously studies showed some hope of bringing some very good info in. Then all had gone quite in this field and this area being unresearched again for so long.

    Firestormm.. It used to be known there was two types of HHV6 .. that being A and B (as there hasnt been any ME/CFS HHV-6 research being done for years, I havent kept up on HHV-6 stuff but I'll say what I used to know from where I was researching into that area in the past).

    Everyone gets infected with HHV6 and with one of these varieties (on rare occassions a person could be infected with both but what happens is in getting one of these, usually gives immunity to the person from getting the other kind, so its rare to have both. HHV-6 A wasnt common in the general community at all (it may of been as low as 4%.. I cant remember but the stat was quite low), so most normal people carry HHV-6 B. One CFS study thou found most ME/CFS people were carrying HHV-6A (the number was above 75% so I thought the high number whatever it was and the differences to the normal pop, was quite a startling find.
    They also found hat some of us with CFS actually carried both..

    I dont know what happened as as far as I know, this field then went cold with no follow up studies being done in this ME/CFS area back when i was interested in HHV6 ... i do know in most research of HHV6 (non ME/CFS research) that they werent even splitting up the two types to look at so research into HHV6A also seemed abandoned. Any info out there seemed to be on HHV6-B

    sights.. this study is not really telling us like most HHV-6 studies.. what HHV6 they refering too.. Was the ME/CFS people being looked at nearly all carrying HHV6-A?? instead of HHV6-B which most do? I dont find it surprising at all that it was found that the patients were infected by a second strain of HHV-6 seeing a CFS study in the past, way back, showed that some of us were surprisingly carrying both.

    Ive had a couple of different people who had issues with HHV6 reaction over the years tell me due to my symptoms that they think I have this going on too.. unfortunately Ive found no doctor to give me a test for HHV6 at all.

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