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CFS a glycolosis problem?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by sickntired771, Feb 16, 2016.

  1. sickntired771

    sickntired771

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    My nutritonist said CFS is likely a glycolosis problem and my body is not converting glucose into proper energy long term. He said maybe I get a quick fix from carbs but it doesn't last. He wants me to get my energy from body fat and to use ketones.

    I am interested in the strategy but have done a low-carb ketogenic diet before and felt so weak so I don't know if there is any chance his new approach will work.
     
  2. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    If you felt a lot worse the last time you tried it, then I would think you'll have the same results this time. Some need more carbs, some need less, same for protein and fats, no matter what the illness is IMO.

    I agree there's probably a glycolosis issue as part of the illness in some patients, but the 'why' of it is probably a better question to ask, so that that can be addressed.

    Anyway, here's a series on the risks of going too low-carb:

    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/1...ets-i-can-there-be-a-carbohydrate-deficiency/

    And by posting this, I'm not agreeing this is 'The Perfect Health Diet', as above, what is 'perfect' for one person, may not be for another, but just that it points out the risks of lowering carbs too much.
     
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  3. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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    @sickntired771 I agree with @dannybex , very low carb is not always the answer. You can be in ketosis and still eat moderate amounts of carbs - think no grains or grain-like carbs, but carbs from vegetables (sweet potatoes, pumpkin, carrots, beets,...).

    You could use a chart of the glycemic index vs glycemic load of vegetables too find your personal balance. http://www.alsearsmd.com/glycemic-index/
     
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  4. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    Undoubtedly many of us do have inefficient energy pathways, including glycolysis, but this seems like a gross oversimplification.

    As @dannybex said, if a ketogenic diet made you feel worse in the past, what would be different now?

    And don't forget body fat and ketones won't feed you gut microbiota.
     
  5. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Just because you had problems previously, does not mean you will have them again. Maybe you went too quickly into it or some other reason. I am reading the work of paleomom aka Sarah Ballantine and it is fascinating also the reviews of her book on Amazon. She seems to be the best source.
     
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  6. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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  7. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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  8. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    If you're not using carbs properly (I wasn't) then something is wrong with your physiology and probably your gut. Look into strategies to fix your mitochondria and your gut.

    From an evolutionary perspective, low carb/ketosis is a bandaid strategy, intended to provide your brain and body with fuel during times of scarcity. Physiologically speaking, I don't believe it was every intended to be a long-term state of being, and it could very well make your problems worse in the long term. It did mine. I count low carb as one of the things that helped put me in the tank with CFS symptoms. My health deteriorated noticeably and relentlessly after dabbling in low carb/ketosis and diets that severely restrict starch.
     
  9. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    There are people with various fatty acid oxidation metabolic disorders who cannot get their energy from fat. They are at risk of metabolic crisis and death if they do not maintain a regular and high enough carbohydrate intake. If their glucose supply runs low the body begins to breakdown muscles for protein instead leading to a toxic overload.

    If a ketogenic diet made you feel weak and tired it may be worth finding out if you have a mild version of one of these disorders.
     
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  10. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    I think it is worth experimenting cautiously with a reduced carbo diet. We can easily stop if there are signs that it is not suitable, but according to the reviews, we have a lot to lose if we do not give if a try.

    With that in mind l have cut out grains in the last few days. I am eating high carb vegetables. There has been a noticeable softening of my skin and it seems that inflammation has been reduced as l was able to take some nutritional yeast and my interstitial cystitis did not flare. Weight is reducing. Also no need for an afternoon nap and sleeping longer. Good signs l think.

    Even if paleo man ate grain's they would probably not cause the problems they cause us due to our weakened systems from toxins.
     
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  11. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    Brenda, I've experienced the same thing. This may be due to increased butyrate production because you're giving your good gut bugs good starch to eat. It happened to me after a short while of supplementing with clostridium butyricum probiotic (produces butyrate) and raw potato starch. Over at VegePharm blog, others have noticed the same effect just from eating potatoes full of resistant starch. I don't supplement with the raw potato starch much any more, or with c.butyricum either, but the good effects on my skin remain, probably because I eat a lot of starchy carbs now.

    Increased butyrate production especially made a difference in the quality of skin on my (formerly skanky) feet. It no longer sounds like I'm filing wood when I take the pumice stone to my feet. :lol: :thumbsup: Plus I don't spend nearly as long on them. A few quick licks with a sandpaper paddle is pretty much all it takes. If I didn't go barefoot all the time I probably wouldn't even have to do that. But before I added good starch to my diet I used to have to spend 10 minutes a day on them with the pumice stone *and* the paddle to get them smooth and presentable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
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  12. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    @whodathunkit

    On yes l remember, thanks for reminding me, that l had the same results from taking small amounts of resistant starch in raw potato. It was due to a boost in my immune system but it ended up in an increased attack on my thyroid and my hair started to fall out other symptoms and l had to quit.

    I am just recovering from another attack on my thyroid as l was rubbing frankincense oil onto my goitre and it stimulated an attack. I was already eating raw carrot and beetroot l just ate extra along with other vegetables. I mentioned it to show l was still eating carbs so l think it is the lack of grains that has done it and l really hope that my immune system will not now attack my thyroid.
     
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  13. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @brenda, from what I remember in the big gut thread, some people did have immune stimulation from the potato starch and c.butyricum. But maybe it doesn't happen if you're eating real food and not taking such substances in isolation.

    I hope everything's okay now, or at least that it gets better very quickly. Let us know how it goes. :)
     
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  14. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    @whodathunkit

    I was on the same diet then. The only hope l have is that the removal of grains will make the difference in not stimulating the immune system in the same way and it will leave my thyroid alone Hope so. Dry skin completely gone Very constipated though but l have read this happens at first if you quit grains suddenly.

    Eating enough vegetables is a challenge but not too difficult.
     
  15. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @brenda, can you eat potatoes?
     
  16. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    I am not eating them no. I have no idea whether they would raise my blood sugar too much ATM.
     
  17. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @brenda, FWIW, I am hyperglycemic. Insulin-resistant. Have been for years. Sometimes my blood sugar would go scary high. I could have been diagnosed as diabetic except I always had some excuse for the doctor as to why it was high. Thankfully, my doc and I have a good relationship and she understands my situation. I never wanted a diagnosis of diabetes following me around for the rest of my life.

    Anyway, potatoes don't raise my sugar. There is a transient spike but it goes right down. In fact, cooked and cooled potatoes have a beneficial effect on my sugars over time due to better gut function.

    For whatever that's worth.

    Also worth noting is that my sugars are still kind of high in the a.m., but they're pretty much normal at other times, and even in the a.m. they're no longer scary high or even diabetic high. Pre-diabetic but not diabetic. Whereas for a couple of years, based on self-monitoring with a glucose meter, I was diabetic. But I'm pretty confident that with some more sustained effort at a good whole foods diet low in omega-6 that I'll normalize my sugar. I've been saying that for a while but I have a lot of cellular damage to correct so it's taking a while. Longer than I hoped. But I think I'll get there. And I'm eating potatoes almost every day.
     
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  18. sickntired771

    sickntired771

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    The difference between this time and the last is that this nutritonist is OK with rice and thats a good carb to replace for wheat. To do it without some carb would be hard but because he is ok with rice i am willing to try.
     
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  19. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Yes me as well and probably diabetic now as l often was at that point when l was measuring blood sugar. It's one of the reasons l had to have a drastic change of diet because of the sugar cravings l would get at times even though l was avoiding it mainly.

    Potatoes are not allowed on the autoimmune paleo diet. I can cope with that. In fact l am eating so many vegetables a day now that l am stuffed and not craving anything.

    Next week l hope to be fully on the diet which is twelve cups of veggies a day and meat with a little fish and berries. Hopefully only being strict for a few months tll the gut heals.
     

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