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CDC Scientist: ‘We scheduled meeting to destroy vaccine-autism study documents’

Large Donner

Senior Member
Messages
866
Regarding the blanket concise statement that I often hear from the mainstream "experts" in the media that "the MMR or x or y or z is safe", I have been doing some research and can set everyones minds at ease with a government endorsed safe list.
I received no financial compensation for doing it i just did it for the good of mankind.
Safe things
cars - safe
ambulances - safe
trains - safe
aeroplanes – safe

Disclaimer: (the above four may have some mild side effects especially for politicians or public figures who tend to speak out too much)

guns and knives - safe
guns and roses – dangerous (please don't listen to them too loudly or play their records backwards)
50s Elvis – dangerous
60s Elvis - cool
70s Elvis eating enormous amounts of deep fried peanut butter sandwiches – very dangerous!!!
Deep fried peanut butter sandwiches – safe
Drone bombing - the jury is out but the current feeling is its keeping lates teens early twenty somethings gainfully employed cos they are really good at violent computer games and desensitized to all that stuff.
Drone bombers - safe
tanks - safe
radiation – safe, especially on the Pacific coast
mercury – safe, especially when you label it thimerosol
prozac – safe
being unmedicated by big pharma whilst experiencing the full range of human emotions and experiences – dangerous
self medicating with a wee dram to get some realism back into your consciousness – dangerous


The CDC - safe
CBT - safe
GET -safe
Tuskegee experiments – safe
recombinate viruses that where previously unknown for decades - safe (thats definitive even though we have no idea how many are out there because we have so much "junk dna")
people who talk about the discovery of recombinate viruses - safely tucked up in jail

a safe – safe
Monsanto – safe
GM food – safe
steroid and antibiotic reared animals for meat for human consumption - safe
Aspartame - safe
Monsanto - safe (yes I did say that twice)
people who complain of leaky gut symptoms – stupid idiots

growing your own veg in your own back yard – dangerous preppers
high carbohydrate based diet - safe
high fats diet - dangerous (we had some problems with the above two so we had to reclassify diabetes as safe)
diabetes - safe

Psychiatrists – safe
people who point out the logical fallacies present in psychiatry – dangerous and potential enemies of Insurance companies, the state, the DWP and IDS.
Mentally ill people – safe
Physically ill people who will not except mind and body dualism logical fallacy psychiatry as a diagnosis and are partly mentally ill according to the psychiatrist – dangerous, even though mentally ill people are safe
Psychosomatic medicine – safe
biomedicine - bloody conspiracy theorists!!


Gadaffi – safe, dangerous, safe and then finally dangerous
Saddam Hussein – See above
General Pinochet – see two above
Margaret Thatcher – safe, see one above


government propaganda – dangerous according to George Orwell then safe according to Colin Powell and Tony Blair then finally no safety or danger ranking due to its new legal status according to George Bush.

British beef – safe
Lyme tic bites - safe
banana skins – safe (and even if someone does slip on a banana skin its very very funny)
1970s BBC TV personalities – safe
Politicians, Celebrities and people within the BBC who where around in the 1970s and 80s – well lets be honest they are in a little bit of danger right now!!!
Western Country Leaders – safe, Eastern country leaders dangerous (yes folks its that simple)

accidents – safe
serious accidents – safe ( if you have any concerns consult your gp, although there is no current evidence to suggest serious accidents are dangerous)


Putting mercury in flu vaccines and giving them to pregnant women and immune compromised people – safe (this is due to the nature of government issued flu)
Doctors who administer mercury induced flu vaccines to pregnant women and immune compromised people and the people who manufacture them – S A F E R THAN ANYONE!!!!!!
MMR – safe
 
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natasa778

Senior Member
Messages
1,774
omg Donner, you forgot eggs!!!

and what about that dangerous that high protein diet eaten by those dangerous lunatics?
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
@Large Donner

You hit the nail on the head. Its not black and white when it comes to safety. It's about risks vs benefits. For vaccinations, the benefits far outweigh the risks.

Over 300 deaths in Katanga and all preventable.

http://www.msf.org/article/drc-katanga-measles-epidemic-keeps-worsening

Where I live there's a mumps outbreak among college students.

When a boy who's gone through puberty or an adult man contracts mumps, the disease sometimes affects the testes and causes an inflammatory condition called orchitis. According to a review published in 2006 in the "International Journal of Clinical Practice," orchitis develops with mumps in 20 to 30 percent of postpubertal males. The inflammation sometimes also involves the epididymis, a narrow tube that transports sperm out of the testis. Inflammation usually affects one testicle, but involves both testes in about 1 in 6 men with orchitis. Most cases of mumps-related orchitis develop during the first week of illness, causing painful swelling of the testicle and reddening of the scrotal skin. Pain usually resolves within a week. After the acute illness improves, the male might notice softening of the testicle under the scrotal skin, which may be followed by noticeable testicular shrinkage. This loss of testicular tissue occurs in 30 to 50 percent of males with mumps-induced orchitis.

http://livehealthy.chron.com/infertility-caused-mumps-1232.html

Barb
 

duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
Biblical profits aside - along with all the leverage they bring to bear - vaccines are good fodder for the argument that, in medicine at least, democracy can be a moral failing.

What's best for the majority, if it is knowingly at the expense of the smallest minority, should be morally reproached. It might be made policy because of crass arithmetic, but it should not be unconditionally condoned.
 

Large Donner

Senior Member
Messages
866
@Large Donner

You hit the nail on the head. Its not black and white when it comes to safety. It's about risks vs benefits. For vaccinations, the benefits far outweigh the risks.

Thanks Barb for your contribution to this debate. I am aware of many of the positions in this debate and take them onboard . However I think its possible you have hit your thumb with the hammer and missed the nail.

That's not being pedantic its pointing out that there is an ingrained illogic in, "For vaccinations, the benefits far outweigh the risks." Especially if one slips back into the narrative "vaccines are safe" interchangeably.

Can the same be said about penicillin side effects and therefore ignore the side effects and the need to establish who could have adverse reactions.

What do you do then with the smaller percentage of people who do have adverse reactions and or life long damage. How do you monitor if such damage is on the increase or decline if its more about managing the public perception. How do you improve the safety of pharmaceuticals whilst in scientific denial, "for the greater good".

How do the people on the receiving end of a medical intervention make a real informed choice as is their legal right. How do parents get out of jail or get there kids back from state custody if they are in the smaller group who get the risk and not the benefit and the state accuses them of Munchhausen, "to keep the"benefits outweighing the risks"?

How do you develop a field of aftercare for the people who unfortunately fell into the risk category? Do you go after the doctors who try to figure out what to do with these people to "protect the masses"?

I mean can we say that CBT and GET for ME is for the greater good because the benefits outweigh the risks because most people with fatigue "get benefit from it", whilst ignoring the neurological disease groups who get no benefits from it and can be made worse. I mean the PACE study comes straight from the government right? The benefits must outweigh the risks? Should we have the right to be informed of what the true scientific risks are?

Seeing as it was your statement, "For vaccinations, the benefits far outweigh the risks", could you tell me what you consider the risks to be and what number of people are affected by them? Do you mean a single vaccine and the concept of how that works to immunize against one disease? Or are you referring to the continual vaccine schedule which I believe is up and beyond 30 in young children in many States and parts of the world. How do the preservatives and such like, plus the recombinate viruses recently discovered after the XMRV issue react together.

How many recombinate viruses are there in labs that can contaminate products that we don't know of and how many do you estimate we do not know off. How many of the ones we don't know about are harmless how many have potential for harm?

Taking into account all of the above how do you personally make an informed consent?

For me medicine isn't something that is done to me its something that I need all the truths in order to give informed consent. We are not governed by the government we are the government. They work for us as our representatives not the other way around.

Lastly please can you explain to me what the risk benefit ratio is of vaccinating pregnant women with flu vaccines that contain mercury especially in rich countries. Just how deadly is the flu on a risk benefit ratio when you take into account that the conventional medical wisdom for over 150 years was not to vaccinate pregnant women.

When did they do the studies that changed that practice.

Don't they even tell pregnant women not to take paracetamol/Tylenol?

Would any doctor anywhere inject the volume of mercury present in the flu vaccine into a pregnant woman minus the other ingredients?

Isn't the flu a rapidly mutating virus so whats the point of using a batch flu prior to flu season?

Why does my dad get the flu vaccine every year then get the flu then say, "bloody flu seems to last for months nowadays"? Then when he asks me if I get the flu vaccine to protect myself and I answer, "why would I let the revolving door government inject the flu into me using tax payers money to give it to big pharma whilst telling me its free", does he look at me blankly and then go back next year for his flu?
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
@Large Donner

It might have been missed but my first sentence was meant to be sarcastic. Dear me. Add that on top of people not getting my jokes!:lol:

I would love to answer each and every one of your questions but I'd have to write a book. But yea, there is a book which will save me the trouble!

Deadly Choices How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens Us All
In 2010, California suffered the largest and deadliest outbreak of pertussis, also known as “whooping cough,” in more than fifty years. This tragedy was avoidable. An effective vaccine has been available since the 1940s. In recent years other diseases, like measles and mumps, have also made a comeback. The reason for these epidemics can be traced to a group whose vocal proponents insist, despite evidence to the contrary, that vaccines are poison. As a consequence, parents and caretakers are rejecting vaccines for themselves and their families.

In Deadly Choices, infectious-disease expert Paul Offit takes a look behind the curtain of the anti-vaccine movement. What he finds is a reminder of the power of sci knowledge, and the harm we risk if we ignore it.

http://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Choices-Anti-Vaccine-Movement-Threatens/dp/0465029620

There have been many things written about Offit which are simply not true. Here is a source.

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/debunking-myths-dr-paul-offit

Hooker, whose paper was retracted, basically messed up the statistics and the more I read, the more obvious it becomes.

But DeStefano et al. were not calculating the risk of autism given vaccination; they found the rate of vaccination given autism. Hooker implies that children who receive the vaccination are more likely to get autism. But DeStefano showed that children who have autism are more likely to get vaccinated
.
http://www.stats.org/african-american-boys-and-autism/

The difference between risk and rate is an important distinction.

I have found more citations that go beyond this to show why Hooker's reanalysis was flawed. But it's late, and have had to edit this several times because of that. I may post some of this in the future..

I think it goes without saying that @Large Donner has style even if we have different views. That statement is NOT sarcasm. :)

Barb
 

pogoman

Senior Member
Messages
292
I will continue to take the flu shot every year like I have the past two decades :D
Maybe even get the shingle vaccine as I am about the recommended age for it.
apropos of nothing, a new grade school named after Jonas Salk is opening less than a mile from where I live ;)
 

natasa778

Senior Member
Messages
1,774
When in trouble, quote Paul Offit, the guy who has made millions of $$$$$$$$$ from a vaccine patent.
:bang-head::bang-head::bang-head::bang-head:

"it was like winning the lottery"
 

Large Donner

Senior Member
Messages
866
omg Donner, you forgot eggs!!!

and what about that dangerous that high protein diet eaten by those dangerous lunatics?

Eggs - safe
scrambled eggs - safe
fried eggs - safe
poached eggs - safe
omlette - wow it hardly looks like eggs when its fully cooked
egg mayonnaise with a little bit of madras curry powder in the mayo - oooh thats so nice!!


eggs on the pacific coast - safe (if you have any concerns because of Fukushima cloud tracking just cook them in the microwave to neutralize the radiation)

High protein diet - dangerous, because our brains are made of proteins and a high fat/protein diet as opposed to a healthy glucose based energy source from carbohydrates to produce energy could be deadly. If you have any concerns stop reading rounded information and go and eat some GM corn based products.
 

Large Donner

Senior Member
Messages
866
Now I want a deep-friend peanut butter sandwich.

A deep FRIEND peanut butter sandwich? :love:

Thats sounds a bit kinky must be something they do in the forward thinking Netherlands :whistle:

Those continentals always did make us Brits seem so reserved in comparison.

Now I want a deep-friend peanut butter sandwich - or do I. :oops:
 

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
The vaccine adverse reaction reporting system, VAERS, seems to support the idea that there is an association between some vaccines and diseases.

http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.php

For example, MS is associated with the hepatitis B vaccine, much more than any other vaccine.
 

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duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
Trying to labor through the first blog...The heavy derision makes progress difficult.